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Cokeybill54 |
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| Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 at
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04/06/2010 15:46:57 Subject: Re:Details on Pricing Tiers for Tiger Woods PGA TOUR Online
weevilo
Joined: 03/14/2010 21:32:33
Messages: 1
Offline
Nobody expected a free game, but I'd like to express my regret at the rapacious pricing scheme that has been implemented. $60 up-front, $1 a round (100 points to play a round of golf, $10 for 1k points), extra points for clubs and customizations and what not. To get the experience of a traditional golf game that you'd play 5 or so rounds a day for 6 months would end up costing over ONE-THOUSAND real US dollars in TWO.
Is it still April fools? Asian markets may accept the nickel-and-dime hidden costs of such pricing schemes, but I hope American consumers are intelligent enough to realize WE control the pricing scheme based on what we'll pay for. No one should ever spend more than $50-$60 on a game during its lifetime, let along the thousands a rabid golfer would expect to pay for TWO under the current pricing scheme. Hopefully this game will fail and send a message to US game publishers that we aren't dumb enough to support these pricing models.
And just to make explicit what is going on here for those that aren't clearly thinking about what such pricing means, the developers of such games as as this intend that your enjoyment of the game be presupposed on how much extra money you're willing to spend. It costs them little to nothing to allow you to play as much as you want with as many rounds a day with whatever clubs and gear you could previously have purchased with experience points or some other pseudo-monetary currency, yet they limit your ability to have access to features already present in the game based on how much money you're willing to give up. In several years when the game is replaced, you'll lose access to the game as well as the progress of your character, unlike in say, Tiger Woods 08, where I can still play for free as much as I want whenver I want, be it now or five years in the future, not to mention that the online model of play further reduces the quality of play, since I can't play when I don't have a constant or decent internet connection.
Further, you can only compete on an even playing field when you spend enough money. To play the TWO tournament circuit with the best clubs and gear, and enough rounds a day to be competitive, your cost is going to have to equal that of other players willing to spend that amount. Thus this is not a game of skill, but of real money, with respect to tournament golf. And this is one of the main selling points of the game. This pricing model is thus harmful in every way for consumers, and indicates how EA views their customers. Not as someone they work for and for whom they are supplying a wanted product, but as a sucker they intend to milk for as much money as they can get away with.
TWO is a fun game from my experience with the beta, but it falls short of stand-alone golf games that have come before it and will come after it. You guys stepped off the deep end here with your greed. This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 04/06/2010 16:18:09
This a forum post at TWO that I had read...I don't think I'll be a subscriber any time soon!!!
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Danut Golf |
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| Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 at
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| I haven't been following lately, but I would think the $1 per round is for those who do not purchase the yearly subscription. |
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| Dont look back - All youll ever get is the dust from the steps before |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Sunday, April 18, 2010 at
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| Yeah I don't think they are double dipping. |
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PCDurum |
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| Posted: Monday, April 19, 2010 at
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| edited by: PCDurum on
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Hi, I joined up and tried TWO out over the weekend.Ive tried to be objective and fair about what I was experiancing.I just find it so difficult to understand how EA have taken such a step backwards in both visuals and gameplay,the general look is okay but in my opinion the trees havent looked so bad since 2005.The greens are full of creases and pins we would get crucified for here. Once you pay your cash you dont pay for each round you play but they restrict all your power and playing options which you have to purchase with albeit pretend cash. Although you have the option to actually pay real cash for points!.As I am not a cash machine and I consider this paramount to cheating it will take weeks or months to get a player playing with the skill your probably used too,more frustrating than enjoyable.
On course I was very alarmed and nearlly hit on a number of occasions by swarms of low and high flying tracer bombs although I later became aware it was possible to turn these off it kind of points in the direction of where this game has gone developement wise. ie: Total fantasy land,I like a bit of fantasy and adventure but I like my cyber golf to be as real as possible and this a huge disapointment.
On the whole the courses are Okay if not very accurate.Iff you ever get to the 17th at St Andrews you will notice that the road hole bunker has collapsed in on itself and become a gentle depression in the ground! WTF! On a positive note the buildings and Clubhouses are top notch.
Another niggling little thing is how you obtain clubs.As yet I cannot afford to buy even the cheapest club and it will be some time before I can purchase my favoured TM gear.When you do obtain said goodies you only have them for between 5 & 20 rnds then they are taken off you! a temporary loan you might say! Blah!
I simply dont understand why when they have done such a good job on improving the other sports sims in there armoury over past releases that TWO should be such an unfinished,step backwards,dumbed down mess of a game!
Although a CA would go long way to improving the situation TWO is a long way off being the game it could be and it is in my opinion so drenched in corporate orientated moneygrabbing tactics I almost drowned!
Long live TW08,CDL and the upcoming stand alone PGAX Tour! Thanks guys! PC: |
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DivotMaker |
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| Posted: Monday, April 19, 2010 at
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"Once you pay your cash you dont pay for each round you play but they restrict all your power and playing options which you have to purchase with albeit pretend cash. Although you have the option to actually pay real cash for points!.As I am not a cash machine and I consider this paramount to cheating it will take weeks or months to get a player playing with the skill your probably used too,more frustrating than enjoyable.
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Categorically untrue. You do NOT have to purchase ANYTHING additional to compete or play the game. The licensed clubs for points is a CHOICE, not a requirement to play the game. It would be helpful if users like yourself visited the TWO forums to educate yourself on the game before making misinformed comments like the one above.
As to the rest of your post, can't say I have seen all the things you claim to have seen or experienced. Not saying you didn't, but if TWO is not your kind of game, so be it. |
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DivotMaker |
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| Posted: Monday, April 19, 2010 at
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| edited by: DivotMaker on
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| "Further, you can only compete on an even playing field when you spend enough money. To play the TWO tournament circuit with the best clubs and gear, and enough rounds a day to be competitive, your cost is going to have to equal that of other players willing to spend that amount. Thus this is not a game of skill, but of real money, with respect to tournament golf. And this is one of the main selling points of the game. This pricing model is thus harmful in every way for consumers, and indicates how EA views their customers. Not as someone they work for and for whom they are supplying a wanted product, but as a sucker they intend to milk for as much money as they can get away with." |
This post is so full of misinformation, it isnt even funny. Especially the first sentence. Obviously this is a beta tester who was there to play a free game instead of actually testing the game to give EA feedback on the game to improve it. Notice the user has one whole post.....that should be your clue. |
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PCDurum |
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| Posted: Monday, April 19, 2010 at
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Hi DivotMaker, well yes I did walk round the courses hitting my my ea stock ball 200yds with my ugly EA stock woods and irons knowing that even when I do aquire my TM clubs they will be cynically snatched from me before I get a chance to put some scratches on them! C:
I have always been and want to remain supportive of the EA franchise as they make the best realistic sports sims by far which is why Im so dissapointed with TWO as it is.I know its a new game with new engine but I am beginning to resent parting with what over the years amounts to a quite large sum of money and then having my playing experiance not only pulled from underneath me but replaced by a product so lacklustre and off the mark.This is of course just my own humble opinion and I hope that TWO will be improved and become the classic game it should be.
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birdman1952 |
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| Posted: Monday, April 19, 2010 at
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I do agree with certain items from previous posts. There will be seasoned players who have played this game for years playing with very high skill levels. They will be forced to hit a driver 200 yards when a newbie can come in, play 100 rounds, and hit the ball 300 yards....not much fun for the seasoned player who is ready to come in and compete right away.
Also, a question for DivotMaker......when the 08 servers shut down...will the LAN and IP Direct options still be available ? |
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| Posted: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 at
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Categorically untrue. You do NOT have to purchase ANYTHING additional to compete or play the game. The licensed clubs for points is a CHOICE, not a requirement to play the game. It would be helpful if users like yourself visited the TWO forums to educate yourself on the game before making misinformed comments like the one above.
As to the rest of your post, can't say I have seen all the things you claim to have seen or experienced. Not saying you didn't, but if TWO is not your kind of game, so be it." |
If you actually read his post you will see that PCDurum didn't state that you HAD to buy stuff, only that if you wanted to compete on a level playing field you will need the equipment to keep up.
I don't know why you keep defending this game, its obvious from the comments about it thats it is a substandard arcade game which isn't a patch on TW08. EA despite all their betas and asking "what the customer wants" have failed to deliver. They don't give a crap what the customer wants as shutting down the 08 servers prove, after all WE are customers too.
BTW no need to tell me that this is my opinion, I know that allready which is why I wrote it. |
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| From Carnoustie, the REAL home of golf. |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 at
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Remember, this game is still in it's infancy. True, I don't think it was ready for launch yet, but I'm not in that loop.
It does have the potential to someday be a gr8 game, and although I agree they haven't delivered on a lot yet, you can follow it and see how it progresses for FREE and hopefully it becomes the game we hardcore sim users want and need.
They have said they are working on a more sim part of the game and with TBMP coming out next month, we will see.
The only problem I have is that it just should not IMO of been released yet for the public to pay for it. It still has way to many bugs and is too arcadish/consolish, for me as of right now.
But since I have been playing TW's since 05 and enjoyed every minute of it, I am willing to give them a chance.
Yes I have beta tested since sept. 09, but I am still there fighting to get the game those of us who are there, want.. So come play for free, voice your suggestions/opinions and be a part of the solution.. This does have the chance to be an awesome game and we can say we had a part of it..
Hopefully it happens.. |
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slippery1 |
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| Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 at
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| Careful Munroco, you're treading on thin ice expressing your opinion on this subject. I've been saying some of the same things that you just stated for the past week about TWO, only to be told that my opinion is uneducated and misinformed and actually had a post deleted. Everyone here has been very respectful with no name calling or the such, just expressing their opinions, but we are still being told that we don't know what we are talking about and are misinformed. All I can say is this and it is not my opinion, but fact.....I have seen all that I need to see with TWO, EA has put out a pretty crappy product. They did not listen to what I had to say and I said plenty. For these reasons, I refuse to purchase TWO. EA should not have released this product at this stage of its developement. The whole idea of an online game is really the issue that I have with this whole situation. By releasing this as an online version, EA doesn't have to put out a quality product. They can put out a half hearted effort and just state that it is still growing and it will all end up just fine. I'm not going to be persuaded to by something that I don't want or like and wait for it to grow. Give me your best product to begin with and then maybe I'll throw some cash at it, until then, no way. And those are not misinformed or uneducated statements......thats the facts. |
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DivotMaker |
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| Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 at
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"
If you actually read his post you will see that PCDurum didn't state that you HAD to buy stuff, only that if you wanted to compete on a level playing field you will need the equipment to keep up.
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Which is still categorically untrue. I am playing with stock clubs purchased with in-game money and I am scoring as well or better with the EA branded clubs.
Lastly, I am not "defending" anything other than giving my opinions which are based on having actually played the game extensively and when I see misinformation posted, I will respond to correct that information. Sorry if you don't like that.... |
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DivotMaker |
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| Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 at
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| "Careful Munroco, you're treading on thin ice expressing your opinion on this subject. I've been saying some of the same things that you just stated for the past week about TWO, only to be told that my opinion is uneducated and misinformed and actually had a post deleted. Everyone here has been very respectful with no name calling or the such, just expressing their opinions, but we are still being told that we don't know what we are talking about and are misinformed. All I can say is this and it is not my opinion, but fact.....I have seen all that I need to see with TWO, EA has put out a pretty crappy product. They did not listen to what I had to say and I said plenty. For these reasons, I refuse to purchase TWO. EA should not have released this product at this stage of its developement. The whole idea of an online game is really the issue that I have with this whole situation. By releasing this as an online version, EA doesn't have to put out a quality product. They can put out a half hearted effort and just state that it is still growing and it will all end up just fine. I'm not going to be persuaded to by something that I don't want or like and wait for it to grow. Give me your best product to begin with and then maybe I'll throw some cash at it, until then, no way. And those are not misinformed or uneducated statements......thats the facts." |
In some cases there ARE misinformed statements being made here. See my post above. You also accuse EA of not listening to you. Just because what YOU posted has not shown up in the game yet, does not mean EA was not or is not listening to you and others. Whenever you decide to grasp the concept that game development has schedules and those schedules do get interrupted by other events (such as code fixes that need to be worked on when the community reports bugs, etc), you will see that game development is quite a bit more complicated than seeing a good idea or suggestion posted, then putting said suggestion in the game.
And if EA did not put out a quality product, no one would buy it. You criticize the whole online approach to this which is EXACTLY what TW PC has needed for YEARS as we never received many of the updates that previous TW PC games needed. TWO allows them to update the game WEEKLY and for critical issues, they can update ON THE FLY. This was NEVER the case with TW PC in the past. I truly cannot understand why you feel that the TWO approach is such a bad thing. If you are leery because of the lack of past TW PC after shipping support, I get that 100% and EA needs to develop your trust that they will support this game and continue to develop it. Might want to give them time to prove this to you before you continue to criticize a Dev team that had nothing to do with the failures from past TW PC games, but they do very much know the history of that lack of support which is why they are committed to TWO 100% from Peter Moore on down. |
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jhdabrick |
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| Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 at
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| Well, as you like to say Divot, That's your opinion, and your entitled to it. I for one, am not going to give EA another dime until they stop trying to get me to pay for a substandard product. It was not ready for release, and in it's current form, it is junk. It can be fixed, and may yet be fixed, but I'm not gonna bet on that happening. I have owned every version of TW since 1997. I have spent a little time and more than a little money watching ea take steps forward with this title. TWO as of right now, is not a step forward, it has fallen down the stairs. If they fix it, and I mean really fix it, then I may give it another chance. I don't like that it's browser based. You pay for nothing tangible. I will give you this much divot, you are about the only one that I have seen that is supportive of this product, and you have stood there on that shaky ground as the masses have lined up against you. That takes stuff. |
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DivotMaker |
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| Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 at
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| TW has been around since 1999. EA has taken nothing but steps BACK since TW2004 for the PC, so I don't know how you can state that the PC version has ever moved "forward" since 2004. You do not like TWO as it is now. FINE. I get it. However, EA never stated they were going to re-hash TW08 PC. TW08 PC was a DISASTER commercially and they knew they had to take a different approach with not just TW PC, but all their PC SPorts games. TWO is the first step to see if this business model works and it is WAY too early to make any sort of judgement as to whether it will or won't succeed. They have stated all along that this product will take time to evolve as they had 1/4 the Team resources for TWO that previous TW Dev Teams had. This was a risk that EA took to bring a new approach to PC Golf. Time and lots of development will tell if the risk they took paid off. As the gamew is now generating revenue for EA, they are adding development resources to the game to speed up its development. They know the game cannot survive "as is" which is why they stated all along that TWO would evolve. They HAD to bring in new users to the franchise because the PC version was dead until now. In fact, they did not have to bring out another version ever, but they took the risk to do so because they believe in the PC and want to see it succeed like TW PC used to if not do better. I have no issue with you or anyone here not liking TWO as it is currently because it still does not compare favorably with TW08 PC in many respects. EA knows this and are in this for the long haul and they know they have a ways to go to attract users like you and others who play 08 religiously. You may have given up on TWO, but I haven't and won't until I see Development grind to a halt and the game ceases to exist. EA is ramping up development to bring TWO up in features and gameplay improvements as well as courses, a new TB MP interface and a CA to give the game longevity like TW08. I believe in the strategy because they are committed to the game and the PC as a platform. It will just take them a while to get TWO to where many here will want to play it...... |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Thursday, April 22, 2010 at
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| "Well, as you like to say Divot, That's your opinion, and your entitled to it. I for one, am not going to give EA another dime until they stop trying to get me to pay for a substandard product. It was not ready for release, and in it's current form, it is junk. It can be fixed, and may yet be fixed, but I'm not gonna bet on that happening. I have owned every version of TW since 1997. I have spent a little time and more than a little money watching ea take steps forward with this title. TWO as of right now, is not a step forward, it has fallen down the stairs. If they fix it, and I mean really fix it, then I may give it another chance. I don't like that it's browser based. You pay for nothing tangible. I will give you this much divot, you are about the only one that I have seen that is supportive of this product, and you have stood there on that shaky ground as the masses have lined up against you. That takes stuff." |
He is not the only one supportive. I am too.. It is hard and it is frustrating, but I'm hoping EA comes through.
But I assure you, Tim is not alone, there are quite a few of us who are hanging in there.
Doesn't mean were happy yet, but we are doing our best, to make it the BEST, game ever!!
I think you'll find that Tim, I and a bunch of us are not satisfied yet, but we are making it known..:)
I also respect your decision not to pay yet, I am glad though, that you are keeping an open mind.. |
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Cokeybill54 |
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| Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2010 at
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| Well at least there are a few believers out there...Good for them. I really think that two is going to fall flat on it's face. Most of the on line hackers like me have already joined other free sites to play '08. I'm happy with that. I just can't see TWO surviving with the way it is developed now. EA just got the greed bug from the recession as far as I'm concerned. Happy Hackin' all!! |
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DivotMaker |
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| Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 at
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| "Well at least there are a few believers out there...Good for them. I really think that two is going to fall flat on it's face. Most of the on line hackers like me have already joined other free sites to play '08. I'm happy with that." |
Good for you.
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| "I just can't see TWO surviving with the way it is developed now. EA just got the greed bug from the recession as far as I'm concerned. Happy Hackin' all!!" |
The "greed bug"? So they invest 15 months of development into a game that has been designed from the ground up as an evolutionary process and now they have released it in good enough shape that thousands of users are subscribing to the game (MANY of which are NEW to TW Golf which is one of the MAIN reasons EA took this risk and design direction). And now you think they are "greedy" because they want to begin bringing in revenue from their investment so they can add more development resources to improve the game? God forbid! As of Tuesday, the game will have 12 courses, two shy of what TW08 shipped with. TB MP is being released in May and they are incorporating more new MP and Group MP functionality. Yeah, this game is destined to fail...... |
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cms659 |
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| Joined: 3/18/2007 |
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B-Day: 6/14/1959 (65) |
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| Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 at
12:30:11 PM |
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| "Well at least there are a few believers out there...Good for them. I really think that two is going to fall flat on it's face. Most of the on line hackers like me have already joined other free sites to play '08. I'm happy with that." |
Good for you.
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| "I just can't see TWO surviving with the way it is developed now. EA just got the greed bug from the recession as far as I'm concerned. Happy Hackin' all!!" |
The "greed bug"? So they invest 15 months of development into a game that has been designed from the ground up as an evolutionary process and now they have released it in good enough shape that thousands of users are subscribing to the game (MANY of which are NEW to TW Golf which is one of the MAIN reasons EA took this risk and design direction). And now you think they are "greedy" because they want to begin bringing in revenue from their investment so they can add more development resources to improve the game? God forbid! As of Tuesday, the game will have 12 courses, two shy of what TW08 shipped with. TB MP is being released in May and they are incorporating more new MP and Group MP functionality. Yeah, this game is destined to fail......" |
You would think after 15 months they would have come up with something worth playing (or investing in). They didn't - instead - and yes I'll say it too - they got greedy - spent months developing what is not only the worst golf game they have released - but might be the worst product period they have ever released.
Released it in good enough shape? Not sure how that can be said about a product (and I have said this many times before) - that sets their own golf game released BACKWARDS at least 5-6 years if not more.
I not only agree with Bill that TWO in in it's current development will not survive- I am HOPING it fails miserably. They are attempting to make money off of an extremely INFERIOR product compared to other things they have done over the years. |
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Chuck
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TigerShark! |
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| Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 at
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| edited by: TigerShark! on
Sunday, April 25, 2010 at
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You would think after 15 months they would have come up with something worth playing (;or investing in). They didnt - instead - and yes Ill say it too - they got greedy - spent months developing what is not only the worst golf game they have released - but might be the worst product period they have ever released.
Released it in good enough shape? Not sure how that can be said about a product (;and I have said this many times before) - that sets their own golf game released BACKWARDS at least 5-6 years if not more.
I not only agree with Bill that TWO in in its current development will not survive- I am HOPING it fails miserably. They are attempting to make money off of an extremely INFERIOR product compared to other things they have done over the years." |
AMEN!!! Couldnt POSSIBLY have said it any better! You read my mind. As hard as it is to imagine, TWO is WAY worse than the whole TW2002 fiasco ever was and THAT was by far one of the worst games ever put out. This is little kiddie, gimmicky, arcade crap. Plain and simple. |
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