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Munroco |
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| Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at
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Interesting convo in Shoutbox today about course voting, and how 1 designer has voted all of his own courses as 5's, and 65 (SIXTYFIVE) courses made by other designers as 1's. Hanging is too good for these people but I think they should be named at least, if not barred from this site permanently.
Sorry to bang on about this again but it really makes me angry that some low life should be trying to make his own courses look better than they are, and more importantly make other designer's courses appear worse. |
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| From Carnoustie, the REAL home of golf. |
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Jimbo63 |
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| Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at
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| Totally agree with you Neil, must have no confidence in their own courses to do this. We have been here before, which is probably why when you look through the courses to download, quite a few course designers have stopped having their courses rated. |
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PCDurum |
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| Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at
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| Makes a mockery of the site,I'd like to know who does this also. Very sad. |
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jhdabrick |
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| Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at
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| I'll chime in and give my two cents worth by saying that all three of you are top rate designers in my book. |
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GolfMikeLK |
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| Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at
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| you nailed it jimbo, same designer uploading courses at an alarming rate and looks the same with multiple nics. |
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JSJarvis |
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| Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at
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I have removed the votes that this person has made and this person has been banned from voting on courses. We have been down this road before and unfortunately there isn't a good solution. We like leaving voting open to everyone so everyone can participate. It has been suggested in the past that we require people to leave a comment if they vote. We have not done this because the thought was that it would prevent people from voting at all. Some people just do not like to leave feedback from some reason and it is easier for them to just click and vote anonymously than to actually put their name to some comments. The end result is stuff like there. The sad thing on this one is that it was a fellow designer that was tearing other courses down with nothing but 1's.
I have no problem with someone voting a course with a 1 as long as they provide feedback as to why they are voting it that way. And by feedback I mean something more than 'This course sucks!'. Comments like that do nothing to help the designer improve.
I am going to begin watching the voting more closely. It is not fair to the designers who spend hours and hours of their own free time designing for all of us to get bad scores with little to no feedback. I will not hesitate to ban people who choose to abuse the system that is in place on this site. |
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davy1960hill |
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| Posted: Sunday, May 29, 2011 at
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| edited by: davy1960hill on
Sunday, May 29, 2011 at
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Interesting that Neils latest course, which sat at 5 stars since it was released, suddenly dropped to 4.5 stars but no comment added. I would think one extra rating would have needed to be very low to impact on the previous ratings - is this the same small minded individual who has done this, under another name? If so should be easy to prove and remove the person altogether I hope :)
If this turns out to be so can we also put this persons avatar in the public stocks so we can all throw rotten cyber fruit at it?
To be this jealous and pathetic about someone else attaining such acclaim from others is below pathetic.
If I am jumping to the wrong conclusion (;maybe one vote of 4.5 is enough to lower the total) then sorry, just looks sus :) |
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JSJarvis |
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| Posted: Sunday, May 29, 2011 at
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| Different person, but someone did make a vote of a 1 on this new course. A 1 will definitely drop a rating, even if you have a slew of 5 votes for the course. |
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davy1960hill |
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| Posted: Sunday, May 29, 2011 at
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| wow a 1 !!! A bit severe.... and no comment to back the vote. Still seems like it may be petty :) |
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Munroco |
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| Posted: Monday, May 30, 2011 at
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| edited by: Munroco on
Monday, May 30, 2011 at
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Thanks for asking the question Davy. I was pretty sure someone had given me a one. I have always said that if someone gives a one for a course they need to back it up with a comment saying why. I was delighted with the reaction to the course and although Im obviously pissed off that some jealous, petty minded little tosser wants to downgrade my courses for whatever reason I suppose I just need to live with that and take it as a back handed compliment. If it werent for all the great comments from people who take the time to let designers know their opinions, I would have stopped uploading courses here long ago and just confined myself to uploading them on PGAX along with the real courses I do there.
Cheers
Neil |
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| From Carnoustie, the REAL home of golf. |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Monday, May 30, 2011 at
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Hey Neil, don't let what one idiot did, bother you.. He/she can't take away what you do.. There's always someone who is jealous of what he or she cannot do. It is always nice to get support from the community, so don't let it bother you my friend...
Larry. |
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Pitbull |
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| Posted: Monday, May 30, 2011 at
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"Hey Neil, don't let what one idiot did, bother you.. He/she can't take away what you do.. There's always someone who is jealous of what he or she cannot do. It is always nice to get support from the community, so don't let it bother you my friend...
Larry." |
Exactly.....I myself look to your guys courses as learning tools and appreciate the time and effort that goes into them. I always look at it this way I never saw a movie critic that could direct.
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Jimbo63 |
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| Posted: Monday, May 30, 2011 at
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Neil
Whoever gave your course a one star is totally clueless. I gave up having my courses rated because I know I try my absolute best on every course and I do not want some malcontent downgrading it without leaving a comment as to why. I also know that you put your heart and soul into every course you design, which makes you one of the all-time best course designers IMO. Maybe a total re-thinking of the ratings would make sense??? |
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jmeier |
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| Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at
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| I had been one of the proponents to no comment, no vote accepted. But others felt that it would take away from the voting and that people would not vote if they had to comment. IMO that would have been just fine with me. If someone could not be bothered to leave a comment I would not want to be bothered with them being able to vote either. I think a no vote, as well as a vote with comments is much more useful than just a vote. Also I have always felt the ratings were a bit worthless anyway good or bad. If someone where to vote all 5s on my designs they wouldn't hold much weight for me. I know I can do a decent course but a perfect masterpiece worthy of a perfect score, not likely. Like Neil My courses as well as the courses the team at PGAX has put out always seemed to be prime targets for whatever reason of this intentional vote swaying. This and the lack of any change to the rating/voting system here was pretty much the deciding factor why the US PGA Tournament venues are no longer posted here from PGAX. |
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| Tour Manager and Design Manager of the CGX Tour, the best place online for PGA Style tournament play on custom courses. Often imitated, never duplicated. |
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JSJarvis |
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| Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at
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I wish there was an easy solution for this because I know it is a frustration for many designers and for that I am sorry. In the past, the thought was that people would not vote for courses if they were required to make comments or that their comments would not benefit the designers. Having public votes, many would choose not to vote so their name was not made public. Personally, I don't care if it prevents people from voting anymore. There has been too much abuse of the system and the votes don't mean anything anymore. I don't understand the backbiting that some designers want to do to trash other designers in secret by voting for obviously good courses with a 1 and no comments. I also don't understand the repeated bashing that certain designer's courses take. It is petty, childish and ridiculous.
But I can't change the system. I am not the programmer for the site and don't have much control over how it is programmed. If I could turn off all voting, I would. If I could alter the way it is done, I would. I know the system stinks and I hate it because I am one of the ones that has to deal with the complaints. The only recommendation I have is to send TruBluMich a message and recommend a different system. He is the owner and programmer for the site and is the one that can make the changes. |
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Boze |
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| Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at
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| Just an idea.. How about any vote 3 or less, you must leave a comment as to why. Personally, I don't care much about votes either but their are designers that like the feature and wouldn't be fair to turn off all voting either.. |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at
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| edited by: axe360 on
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at
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How about back to the way it was a long time ago.. No voting.. I do courses because I like to.. I do the best I can also and Im with Jmeier, to get a 5 star rating is really beyond anything I could do...
I really dont care about votes, if I turn them off Ive been chastised because I supposedly didnt have the sack to take what I get.. So I leave them on... But really, do any of us designers care about votes?
Sure we like to get nice compliments and constructive criticism but I doubt any of us care about votes..
I suggest turning the voting off for everyone.. Problem solved.. Then if someone has a beef, let them make a comment.
Right now they can make give a 1 rating and possibly make a course look bad.. Forget the voting.
Hey, how about, you have to download and play a course to see if you like it or not? |
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Munroco |
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| Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at
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The reason I leave the voting on is the fact that I'm competitive. Its not that I want to compete against other designers, but with myself. I want my courses to be the best I can make them.
If someone hates a course and decides they are only worth one or two points then if they have a valid reason fair enough, but if it's only being done out of spite then that isn't fair enough. Bozes idea is IMO the best one, but I would go further and make a comment compulsory for any vote. I know there is a person or persons who continually gives my courses one point, and without being arrogant I know that this isn't based on the quality. One person I know of (a fellow designer of all people) has been recently stopped from voting altogether, personally I would have banned him. Staff can see how votes are cast and it will be fairly obvious to them the people who are abusing the system. Stop them all from voting and leave it up to the honourable people who make up the vast majority of the members.
This is a great site and to let it be spoiled by a few low lifes would be a shame. I think course designs are the reason so many people are members here and without them this site would be much poorer.
I'd like to hear Mitch's view on this matter.
Cheers
Neil
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| From Carnoustie, the REAL home of golf. |
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Boze |
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| Posted: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 at
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| Axeman, your not goin' Hitler on me, now are ya? lmao.. ; ) |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 at
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| No soup for you, Bozeman! |
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