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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Saturday, June 6, 2009 at
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I have tested so much this last week or so with trying find the right libraries, grasses, and whatever else you can think of to get the look I have in my head on my 1st hole & testing plot I use. I really try to figured out everything I can before coming here again & again, but sometimes I just get stuck doing this.
I never used the gallery before & wanted to see what it exactly did, but now I can't delete one of the gallery I put down now, and it let me delete the other two gallery spots I used in the properties box.
Picture below showing the white line gallery placement that won't go away
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Saturday, June 6, 2009 at
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Here is what my first hole is looking like, but I still have stuff like benches, ball washers, stairs, and other things needed to give it the touch needed to make it OK, but this is close to what the playing surface will look like below. The plantings aren't written in stone, and I will still test out certain grasses, plants, and trees to see what is available here. Learning alot to what libraries are out there, but still so much work to do. and it really amazing me to the time other designers have put in to learn all this stuff.
Plus, I don't shot very well(anything below par is great for me) playing TW compare to others in this game, and is there anyway I can send someone the hole to see if the course plays to easy before making the rest of the course. Don't want to make a course that is to easy, and find out when it's all done. I'm really trying to make a course that is fair, but punishes you for hitting bad shots, and at the same time giving the golfer different options available to what shot they can do.
Pictures below to what it's looking like so far, and if there is anything you designers see that needs work.
I can handle constructive criticism.
Thanks
Squirrley
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Saturday, June 6, 2009 at
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Behind green below
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Saturday, June 6, 2009 at
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Area where drive off tee will go
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Saturday, June 6, 2009 at
11:40:35 AM |
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How deep most bunkers will be
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Saturday, June 6, 2009 at
11:51:13 AM |
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Saturday, June 6, 2009 at
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Thats my 1st hole so far, and I will continue to test things all this week before moving ahead. I want to make a full course so so bad, but I have learn this last few weeks. I better test things before moving ahead or things will be all mess up big time, and all the work will be for not.
Getting like 30-40 Fps avg, but sometime it goes down in the 20s & goes up to 50s for a high. Seems to not do the lag thing, but I have the whole course stil to do, and I have so much to learn with finding the balance between performance & visuals(;optimizing/smoothing). Think I said that right.....LOL
Have a 1.86ghz core2duo, 2GB ram, and 8800GT 512mb, but I want everyone to be able to play the course with OK visuals. Im in unknown waters with all this, but I hope it works for most.
Thanks, and Im off to play some TW to get away from this testing some much
Squirrely
Picture sorta showing the different ways the golfer can take with shots below |
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Gunpower61 |
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| Posted: Sunday, June 7, 2009 at
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Hi...
Great pics..looking good.
Try this to delete the galleries:
In Course architect on top go to: Tools......Hole definition tool.......click: Gallery.....choose : section number.....and at right side hit: Delete |
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Sunday, June 7, 2009 at
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Sunday, June 7, 2009 at
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OK
I did that, and in the process, I realized it was a OB marker & not a gallery white line showing up. Silly me, and I couldnt help, but laugh at myself for this. Its funny how the most simple solutions just give me heck, and I had to completely walk away from the CA yesterday to take a break after getting so aggravated with it all. Might do the same today & just play some course I havent tried yet today or do the CDT tour courses if I have the time to get them in.
Thanks for the compliment on the pictures, and Im happy with the outcome(;plantings not so sure about), but Im really having hard time with smoothing & optimizing just right. With these bunkers Im making, the smooth twice & optimizing only 2 times(;homeboy tutorial making a hole) sometimes just doesnt get the % down enough or smoothing all the ruff spots it seems, but I dont have the experience to know what to do. Finding the sweet spot is difficult, but I think Im getting somewhat better while trying to make a full course 3 times now. Getting it the same throughout the course will be difficult, and there is so much to know with this stuff. I went through soooooo many different textures on a practice plot, but mostly went back to the original colors & I had the 1st time. Even tried different looks completely, but I really wanted to go with the original concept because I felt I quit on this idea to quick.
Thanks for the help, and your suggestion made me see things for what was really going on after the darn delete box wasnt highlighted next to the gallery place.
Squirrely
Question:
With the texture that lies under everything that will go all through the course. Not sure what its called, but it surrounds all the buffer zones around the holes.
Do you wait until your finished with all the holes to optimize this spot? |
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 at
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I've been getting a little frustrated here lately with things, and I think I'm trying to much for the experience I have with this designing. I can't make things I have in my mind & keep point down enough, I think.
I'm getting somewhat down with this designing because of this, but I gotta take a step back & approach things different, I suppose.
Don't understand how to smooth & optimize the area outside the buffer zones where half a hill is both in the hole buffer zone & outside it. The whole course planning has got me banging my head against the wall, and I will just keep going with the course & what it turns out to be is what it is, I suppose. The only way I will know these things is to just to dive right in, and keep going, but it would hurt to make a course to have it not play good at all. This is why I have always thought experience is priceless with things, but until I get enough experience it will be a hard ride with this stuff. The performance isn't to bad right now, but I don't know how things will progress through the whole course.
Is there a certain FPS you should be getting the 1st hole to kinda know where you are going?
I feel a little better after venting, this week been a tuff one with the designing.............
Squirrely
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 at
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FPS isn't a reliable method for determining anything that early in the design
unless you're getting below 15 or something - that might be an indication of future problems :)
(and even so - i've played 'low' FPS courses that were smooth as silk ... and 'high' FPS courses that were laggy and stuttery)
FPS is a measure of how an individual PC is rendering/displaying the graphics, mileage may vary with other's systems, that's where having it tested by others helps
perhaps designing a less complicated layout first
then adding plantings, trees etc later on would work better as you get more experience with the CA ? |
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JBCalg
Self Promotion doesnt make it so
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 at
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Tuesday, June 9, 2009 at
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Yeah,
I was thinking this yesterday too after getting so darn frustrated with things. That my ambitions are a little too much for my experience in CA right now. Gotta walk before running like my Mom always said, but I forgot this lesson in all the excitement of designing. Was getting around 30-50 FSP with smooth game play, but it dip in the 20s a couple times just after one hole. I need to get the basics down before doing the ideas that are my head right now, and would really love to make real life courses later on too.
I will work on this course later on down the road because I really like the concept by just keeping the files I saved. Even with toning things down Im will have trouble with knowing how to blend the elevation work where the hole buffer zones go into the outer texture zones. Guess I just make the hill elevations & do the smoothing/optimizing outside the hole buffer zone later once all holes are done.
Thanks for the reply, and sometimes ya gotta take two steps back to take a step forward.
Squirrely
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 at
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I gotta tell one more thing before playing some more tour rds because I laughed at myself for trying this.........
I was so desperate yesterday to save any points I could on the course itself I made a hole making factory in the upper right hand corner on my CA plot last night.
I started thinking way outside-the-box & broke all laws of designing 101, and just figured I'd be cutting that CA part out anyways. So I'll put the points from dropping shapes over & over while trying to get the course layout shapes just right in the factory instead of the course plot. I would copy buffer zone shape then leave ruff shapes or any shapes that might cause bad things to happen behind inside the factory. Then take the main hole layout in buffer zone over to the course plot for elevation work. Then I remembered the tutorials saying that the higher the point total goes when smoothing the more points optimizing will take off ?
So there I was all confused again with this smoothing & optimizing stuff again.......... :(
I stopped & took a break from the CA after this last night, but soon I'm jumping back in the course designing zone full speed ahead.................
Picture below showing my Hole designing factory after going back & forth from save point after save point yesterday:
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 at
2:59:54 PM |
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| I think you're a bit too concerned about the point count right now. I'd recommend for your first course just working on the course and worrying about the points at the end or if something comes up while testing. That way you get a better feel of what works and what doesn't. |
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 at
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Yeah,
I can be a worry wart to much at times, and I need to take a chill pill with all this worrying I've done since my 1st course attempt went very south. Played the tour here yesterday to get a fresh mind with things, and even had my best tour week ever. Sure needed all that......... :)
Jumped back into the designing ring later on in the day, and almost got done with the 2nd hole. Things are still running smooth so I'll chug along to see what happens before making a Mountain out of a mole hill again. Thanks for the suggestions, and I definitely took on to much with my 1st ever design. Still haven't even gotten to the cool things yet like stairs, walls, and other neat touches you designers add to your courses..........
If the course doesn't work it doesn't work, but I'll try my best. Plus I'm going to start a back-up real life course on the side while trying to learn the TA, and one thing I know. My home state of Florida flat lands are looking reel good at this time........ :P
Squirrely
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Squirrely |
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B-Day: 11/30/1969 (54) |
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| Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 at
1:09:56 AM |
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With how jbcalg explained the FPS, and the talked about smoothness of game-play. I have decide to keep going with this course because it's playing real smooth so far, and even the 2nd hole plays smoother than the 1st hole, so I'm not giving up on it. Think I got a system down for the work ahead for this course while getting the 2nd hole playability part completed today, and now I'm going to go off into a deep design dark corner for awhile to finish this design so I can hopefully release a full course one day too.
I'm happy with the design so far, and I somewhat have succeed in creating August 16th hole green action on some spots on the greens so far, but don't want to over do that throughout the whole course, I suppose. Thanks for all the help & replies from everyone here, and I'll try not to come here with a million questions. The walking away from designing for a day did me some good.
Squirrely
This is the look of the course, and though everything isn't set in stone, I think this is what it's going to look like in the end. Will look at all the pano's this week to see if I can find one that fits even better, and I haven't even tested what the textures looks like in different weather yet.
Behind green view with about a 15-25 ft drop from tee to green:
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 at
1:33:13 AM |
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With this pin location below it depended on the wind with how I could attack the pin.
The hills will be your friend on these greens sometimes or your worse enemy too.
Now I'm off to finish this course that has given me 100+ gray hairs, and if I can succeed with making this course, I'll leave the rest of the views of it for release time.......
Squirrely
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 at
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Been wondering this whole time if this course would play OK in expert level, and I would only test everything in very dry with the level I could play right now, but I couldn't hit the ball well enough in expert mode to try it out. Don't know why I didn't think of this before when testing the holes out, but I tried putting only in practice mode with expert this morning instead of trying to get there hitting off the tee. It's a whole different ballgame with expert putting, and what is real cool green action in intermediate/true-swing can be "Nightmare on Putt Street" in expert mode. The difference is kinda significant to say the least.
The 1st two holes are OK in expert mode(thank goodness), and hold the greens, but I will keep this in mind when continuing making this course. Maybe these things I post in this thread can help someone who is trying out designing learn from my mistakes.
I read a cool article in ESPN magazine about how they approached the course conditions for the U.S. Open. This one guy said something like this
"I try to make the conditions for the greens to go bounce, bounce hold instead of bounce roll off or hit & stick because the greens are to soft "
After reading this I tried things out while testing, and even in this TW game. The shots I hit did the bounce, bounce, hold, and didn't roll off the green punishing good shots. Thought that was cool how this TW game really stimulates real golf pretty good.
Squirrely
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Saturday, June 13, 2009 at
9:48:27 AM |
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OK
I'm real confused now, but this time it's a good confused.
Just going to put all my experiences making this course in this thread so maybe some new designer like myself can take something good from my journey.
I just got done doing all my elevation work on a hole I'm working on this morning. Just smoothed the elevation work so far on this hole & haven't optimized it at all yet or done any bunker work either, but when I went to test things out before moving on. The FPS while playing all the holes done & the hole I'm making now went up almost double now, and I'm not complaining, but why is this happening?
Getting way better FPS while the smoothness is even better than before, and I have same GPU drivers, all the settings in my Nvidia control panel & game options are the same has before too.
Nothing has change with my PC, and I'm happy that this is happening, but don't know what caused this to happen..........
Thanks
Squirrely
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Monday, June 15, 2009 at
8:49:47 AM |
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Monday, June 15, 2009 at
8:51:00 AM
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Things are going good so far, and Ive some of the best designing progress here the last few days compare to what Ive had there for two weeks.
The FPS rates & smooth game-play are acting has if their have been given steroids or something. Dont know why this is happening, but I have been following what Ive been taught in the turtorials like its the Bible, and things seems to doing better once I got to a certain point in the design. So remember this new designers, when you doing your 1st course the FPS & smoothness can change for some reason to get even better, but I sure hope this isnt a sign of the beginning of the end. Time will tell, and this is the experience I must get to become a accomplished designer like a lot of you are. I need to look in the forums archives now since Ive figured out how to use the search function better. To see if Im messing up buy not putting in the cool touches Ive seen on other courses like stairs & things like this, and I think the tutorials say its OK to put tee markers down after a hole is done, but not sure about bigger things like stairs, retaining walls, and bridges....
Just to explain why Im so shocked right now is the FPS rates went from 25-60 to 50-150 now all the sudden, and when moving the camera around now its flying like wind too.
Now Im off to practice some, and Ill design a little later on without question if real life allows it......... :)
Squirrely
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Squirrely |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 at
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 at
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Well
I had totally forgot about the cool tip in Nuttywoody thread with the control points being further apart on big shapes, and this could have saved me some time when I got totaly consumed with trying to get my lake wall done OK.
Still trying to find that happy spot with thickness of walls because Ive noticed while testing things that the ball would sometimes go through the darn lake wall if hit hard enough from the fairway(; Cant have that giving the player to much a break....LOL), and now after hrs & hrs of trying things & testing. I think Im getting somewhat close to figuring that happy spot. Got the bunkers figured out with them being smaller because I didnt like the fact that I didnt have to fear the wall in my pot bunker, so I got possessed to find out why. Seems the elevation work can effect the shape getting all out of place like, and wish I would have remembered Nuttywoody thread, the small pot bunker is easier to control than the big lake Im working on, and the lake needs more control points Im guessing. Im new so I total might be off base with this thinking, but just putting what I run up against in this thread.
Here is what happening with the control points when they are further apart on big shapes. They make straight line on the radius, and this is bad when dropping the shape, I think. So when I went to drop my lake wall, It made it different thickness in the wall itself, and cause things to happen I was trying to prevent. Wish I could make pictures where there are things circled & letters/words explaining whats up what Im talking about, and this is probably confusing some new designer more than helping, but I will see if I can learn these things & the designer language too. Found out messing around with the (;dropping to minimal shape) more than one or two times helps & moving it out a inch or a couple times helps too with getting the wall to go straight down all the way to the ground, but Im still not getting it completing right.....:(;
Still cant seem to get the bottom part straight like even with moving the shape out a inch at a time, but the top looks OK so I let it be. Another happy spot Im finding I have to find is playability compared to looks, and Im going to have to learn to put my obsessive compulsive disorder aside with things or its going to eat me up trying to get things right.
Here is a picture kinda showing what Ive been trying to figure out the last day or so.. |
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