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phnert44 |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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With a straight face, its about the money. Of course, and so as with other things in this world, less money usually an inferior product. We agree then, resources! Once again, I understand fully why EA is doing it! Why they are asking for help from the community, it doesn't cost anything. I understand but my point is simply it is producing an inferior product. That's all I am saying whether anyone admits it or not. You gave the reason why, that's something.
My position continues to be we are going to lose a beloved game, and an organized community is helping replace it with a less product. I get it. I can admit what EA is doing, but can you admit that the two games do not compare, even if its a beta 3 version??? It's the "Emperors New Clothes". I am not being sensitive , I just can't understand how many seem to see the game as an acdceptable replacement. That's all. You are trying hard to make the product as good as it can be , thank you for that. It's appreciated.
My question continues to be, how long will EA run the TW08 server? You don't seem to want to ask that "forbidden" question but others have speculated. There will be a finite time since again its about the money. |
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phnert44 |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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Another thought to consider is the strong beta support for 2010 vs TW08. No one can compare the PC games with the online games developed by the beta process. Care to venture your opinon of the customplay golf engine/model/platform beta supported game? That is being developed a long time and the result has been....but they are not EA/.
Defend EA, I'm ok with that. Money talks. But its harder to compare the end results of the two. I understand the how and why. But I don't play customplay golf.
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studentandsp |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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Divotmaker, First I want to thank you for over the years of working for the communtiy as well as working for EA. It good to see someone so positive about EA and everthing that they are doing. I really mean that. But let's not forgot EA is a company, and companies are in business for ONE THING, AND ONE THING ONLY. To make money, they are not doing TW Online for the community, they are doing the new game to make money. Now in order to make money with this game, they need the feedback from the communtiy, so sure they will and are going to listen to the community. But over all it will come down to the little things that has kept all of the sites in the Tiger Woods PC World going like being able to design courses, the gameplay, custom tours (if there will ever be custom courses).
I for one have done the beta testings, and do not like the online game. I believe alot of my dislike for it is I really enjoy playing offline and playing custom courses. So I have been telling myself to get over it, because I really find it hard to believe that there will be some type of design tool for custom courses. I really hope I'm wrong because as a business owner, I keep telling myself that EA is a company and a company is only in business for ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY, to make money, so the business side is to provide that design tool. But the big question that keeps coming back to this business owner is WHY NOT TELL the community that the plan is to provide that tool, if they are really planning to LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK.
If they are designing courses, then they can provide something to the communtiy, they are in a software business, so we all know that they have coders/designers that can provide that tool.
I have stated in my feedback to EA, what I'm stating here. ALL I WANT FROM EA IS SOMETHING TO ALLOWED CUSTOM OFFLINE SEASON OR SEASONS FOR THE 2008 GAME. I'm no coder or software designer but I'm run a business and know its a A LOT CHEAPER to do the custom thing they could do, than design a whole new engine of online. |
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jhdabrick |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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Thank you Studentandsports, you just put into words what is my biggest problem with this whole thing. I too have taken part in the beta, and I didn't care for what I saw. If the very talented community can't enhance the game, then it's a waste of EA's time and my money if I pay for it. |
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Danut Golf |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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I would like to chime in on just a few comments made recently. As far as EA having a commitment to gamers, I think that is proven through the fact that there is a new Tiger in progress at all. Building a game from the ground up is not cheap by any means, and much more costly that revamping an old engine as they had been doing in the past. Right now, in my opinion, it can not compare to the 08 version in many respects. But I also remember how lousy TW99 was and each year it got better. I certain;y don't think it will take years to get this game up to a level worthy of the title. Advances in technology are jumping compared to the slow crawl that we had in the past. The game is not released yet, and will without a doubt go through many, many updates and upgrades before the final version is available. Many issues will stay with the game until that time., meaning that there will still be problem areas, some of which date back to beta 1, which will still show up in the game on the last day of the final beta. But they will be fixed in the retail version. That is normal with any beta test. You NEVER see the final version ahead of the release of the final version. As far as "pulling the plug" on the 08 servers, unless someone has hard data on that, it is nothing more than negative speculation. I hate to see that persons financial profile, because his money is probably all stuffed into a mattress because he knows everything bad will happen if he lets it out of his sight.
There are going to be those who don't like the new game no matter what. People in general do not like change. In fact, they fight change, even if their fight is ludicrous to begin with. That is not a negative meant to insult anyone, it is simply truth. With everyone. Some do it more than others, but we all do it. However, while some will never accept the new game, or never stop comparing it to the older versions, there will be others who like it better, or may not like it as much as they did 08 but will accept that it is not in competition with TW08. It is a different game, other than the fact that it is a golf sim and it has some of the same courses.
I believe that all of the mechanical issues with the game will be corrected for retail release. Possibly the graphics will not be where we would like to see, but that is one area where we will see improvement on a continual basis. Before I commit to saying I will or won't be a customer of TWO, I will wait to see what the retail version has to offer.
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Dont look back - All youll ever get is the dust from the steps before |
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phnert44 |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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At least an honest comparison Steve thanks. My thanks to all the great courses you have designed for us, and for all your help Divot with the community support.
I'm glad no one is trying to insult anyone or become personal but;
1) When change is for the better we like it; when it is not we usually don't , that's not being negative. And when it is offered with the blind hope of someday being better, than I am somewhat skeptacle. Customplay golf not withstanding.
2) There is the history of gamemakers pulling the plug on old games, countless examples. Anyone playing pga2000, TW06 etc anymore? I don't need hard data , just the facts.
3) My money is in US Government bonds and treasuries, not the crap table Wall street stocks. So I put my money in a safe place for information.
Shame Steve, I will miss your awesome designs at some future time, the victim of change. In your honor, I will tonite download all your TW08 courses (I have most) and your 3 TW07 courses, so I'll have them when the change is final.
I chose the telephone, not facebook/twitter and here the older form of communication is a better form of unchanged communication, thats an absolute, not an opinion. EA can move on and provide the new 2010 higher tech golf version but I'm not blindly going to drink the cool aid, it doesn't taste as good as a glass of milk..... (an analogy)
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DivotMaker |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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"With a straight face, its about the money. Of course, and so as with other things in this world, less money usually an inferior product. We agree then, resources! Once again, I understand fully why EA is doing it! Why they are asking for help from the community, it doesn't cost anything. I understand but my point is simply it is producing an inferior product. That's all I am saying whether anyone admits it or not. You gave the reason why, that's something." |
Of course it is about money. What company in existence today wants to put out a product that loses them money? You say TWO is an inferior product? Well, I should hope so as in its current state they have 20% of the features in the game....
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"My position continues to be we are going to lose a beloved game, and an organized community is helping replace it with a less product. I get it. I can admit what EA is doing, but can you admit that the two games do not compare, even if its a beta 3 version??? It's the "Emperors New Clothes". I am not being sensitive , I just can't understand how many seem to see the game as an acdceptable replacement. That's all. You are trying hard to make the product as good as it can be , thank you for that. It's appreciated." |
See comments above....
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"My question continues to be, how long will EA run the TW08 server? You don't seem to want to ask that "forbidden" question but others have speculated. There will be a finite time since again its about the money." |
EA has historically kept servers running for previous versions LONG after the games were popular. EA asked me what they could do for the community when they decided to not ship an 09 PC product and I asked them to continue running the online servers as long as possible. Considering the average price of TW08 for PC is now about $9.99, you will excuse me if I do not buy your "its all about the money" accusation.... |
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DivotMaker |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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"Another thought to consider is the strong beta support for 2010 vs TW08. No one can compare the PC games with the online games developed by the beta process." |
Why not? TW for PC had a beta process from TW99 through 2006. That process was NOWHERE NEAR as comprehensive as the online Beta's for TWO have been. In fact, TWO's "betas" should have been named "Alpha's" because they were so early in the development process. Not to mention THOUSANDS of users from all different PC and console communities were invited to the betas which was not the case for prior TW PC Betas. You are comparing apples to oranges.
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"Care to venture your opinon of the customplay golf engine/model/platform beta supported game? That is being developed a long time and the result has been....but they are not EA/." |
The result of CPG has been a disaster financially. It is a nice game and I could not think more highly of the developers and their attention to detail and commitment to the community. However, the game is dying a slow death because they have had issue securing an adequate publisher. That and the the fact that it takes quite a bit of high end PC power to run the game at a decent resolution.
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"Defend EA, I'm ok with that. Money talks. But its harder to compare the end results of the two. I understand the how and why. But I don't play customplay golf.
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Defend EA? Are you serious? I am defending MY OWN OPINION. Nothing more, nothing less. You don't like, TW online. FINE. Play TW08.
Good Luck to you. |
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DivotMaker |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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"Divotmaker, First I want to thank you for over the years of working for the communtiy as well as working for EA. It good to see someone so positive about EA and everthing that they are doing. I really mean that. But let's not forgot EA is a company, and companies are in business for ONE THING, AND ONE THING ONLY. To make money, they are not doing TW Online for the community, they are doing the new game to make money. Now in order to make money with this game, they need the feedback from the communtiy, so sure they will and are going to listen to the community. But over all it will come down to the little things that has kept all of the sites in the Tiger Woods PC World going like being able to design courses, the gameplay, custom tours (if there will ever be custom courses)." |
Tell me then, when has EA ever been so open about asking for user feedback during the design and development stage of TW for PC? Short answer, they haven't. EVER. Now they are, yet you and others accuse them of taking this direction because it is "all about the money". If that were the case, they would have thrown a gimped version of TW08 in a box and called it TW09 and so on for TW10. In fairness to most if not all of you, you are not aware of EA's grand strategy for this game. I am. EA will be releasing more details as the game progresses. I expect TW Online to one day surpass all of the TW PC versions combined. Yes, you read that correctly. And no, this is not wishful thinking. This is also dependent on the fact that TW Online becomes a success for EA in the short term as well. THIS is what they are currently focused on with added features to come as the game and community matures.
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"I for one have done the beta testings, and do not like the online game. I believe alot of my dislike for it is I really enjoy playing offline and playing custom courses. So I have been telling myself to get over it, because I really find it hard to believe that there will be some type of design tool for custom courses. I really hope I'm wrong because as a business owner, I keep telling myself that EA is a company and a company is only in business for ONE THING AND ONE THING ONLY, to make money, so the business side is to provide that design tool. But the big question that keeps coming back to this business owner is WHY NOT TELL the community that the plan is to provide that tool, if they are really planning to LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK." |
I cannot comment on any design tool, but I do know what the strategy is. Sorry, that is all I can say.
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"If they are designing courses, then they can provide something to the communtiy, they are in a software business, so we all know that they have coders/designers that can provide that tool." |
It is alot more complicated that you make it out to be, but again, I will defer further comment until a later date.
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"I have stated in my feedback to EA, what I'm stating here. ALL I WANT FROM EA IS SOMETHING TO ALLOWED CUSTOM OFFLINE SEASON OR SEASONS FOR THE 2008 GAME. I'm no coder or software designer but I'm run a business and know its a A LOT CHEAPER to do the custom thing they could do, than design a whole new engine of online." |
I am sorry you wasted your time requesting a new feature for a game that is no longer being developed and will not see any updates or improvements. While it would have been cheaper up front to do as you suggest, it would have continued the downward spiral of revenue and profitability for TW PC. Had they shipped an 09 and ultimately a TW10 based upon TW08, the PC version would have become extinct, just like every other PC Golf game has to date. At least EA should get some credit for taking a HUGE risk to deliver a better offering for users and for EA. However, some of you continue to criticize them for it and I simply don't get it. I guess it is simply a case of you are "damned if you do, and damned if you don't"..... |
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phnert44 |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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Thanks Divot for your "opinion." I like the apple thank you, I'll play TW08. You don't seem to understand most of what I have said. How can you argue my point of view that I am not happy with the current beta 3 2010 product and will not be happy when the EA TW08 server goes down, whenever that is. That's my expression, it doesn't need review.
I am satisifed that at least there is an admission that the current product will continue to become better and better and needs to. As mentioned the graphics and course design feature, two very important aspects to play, will get better. Ok?
Why does some take offense when TW08 is so loved and 2010 not satisfying now to some. That is all it is. We have established how EA needs to make money or profit, the capitalism argument. And how wonderful they are to keep letting us enjoy the TW08 server. Why do you think that is.???? Thanks for permission to continue to play TW08; it's appreciated.
No need to go line by line refuting every comment although you have the time. What above needs to be defended or refuted? I am not questioning your optimism, enthusiasm, and loyalty to EA! I just don't understand the outpouring. |
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DivotMaker |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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"Thanks Divot for your "opinion." I like the apple thank you, I'll play TW08. You don't seem to understand most of what I have said. How can you argue my point of view that I am not happy with the current beta 3 2010 product and will not be happy when the EA TW08 server goes down, whenever that is. That's my expression, it doesn't need review." |
I understand what you are saying, but you are comparing a game which was finished 2 years ago to one that is a work in progress. How hard is that to understand?
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"Why does some take offense when TW08 is so loved and 2010 not satisfying now to some." |
Who is taking offense? I am simply responding with my own comments based upon a 13 year history with EA PC Golf games.
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"What above needs to be defended or refuted? I am not questioning your optimism, enthusiasm, and loyalty to EA! I just don't understand the outpouring." |
I refute comments only when they are stated as "facts" and I know those "facts" are wrong. I do not refute opinions, because they are subjective comments in nature. I may agree or disagree with those opinions which is what I have been doing here. You are stating opinions based upon a game that is still deep in development which means you cannot possibly compare it objectively to a finished product. Does that make any sense?
The only things I am "defending" are my long history with EA Sports and the PC Golf games as well as my own opinions. My loyalty lies with God, my family and myself in that order. EA is way down the list as they should be in the grand scheme of things..... |
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phnert44 |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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You still dont get it.
I don't think your 13 years has any value to what "I" experience. Your opinion on what I like or think is superior or venture what will be superior does not hold any weight to it.
You can cheerlead for EA all you want, your the best. But in one year when I putt a ball on TW08 TS and on 2010 what is your 13 year guess? Don't forget to stop the swing when it hits the top line marker! Wow! Take the hammer and ring the bell? Its a carnival with free admission. But they will eventually charge later. Line for line..........quote me?
That's all I'm saying IMO mate. Like you said go play TW08 as many others will continue until beta 3 becomes live which will include a complete set of groundbreaking changes last minute.... thats what history tells us, a fact. |
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DivotMaker |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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I get it perfectly, but it seems that you have your opinion and that is all that matters. This has degenerated into an argument and now you are questioning my experience with the series. NEWS FLASH....I want the same things you do, but unlike you, I am willing to help EA get there and you aren't. So be it. Have fun with 08 and I will have fun helping shape the future of TW Online. |
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phnert44 |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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But you dont want what I want. I want to remain playing the best golf game ever. I paid for it understand? You want to help EA? Shape the future. It's a game mate. You pays your money to play. And if 2010 or 2012 is better than I will pay to play. get it? I'm not arguing with you. You hear yourself ? What a goal..........its close to raising a family lol. |
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DivotMaker |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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"But you dont want what I want. I want to remain playing the best golf game ever. I paid for it understand? You want to help EA? Shape the future. It's a game mate. You pays your money to play. And if 2010 or 2012 is better than I will pay to play. get it? I'm not arguing with you. You hear yourself ? What a goal..........its close to raising a family lol." |
Yeah, I do want what you want, yet I choose to help EA usher in a new game instead of condemning an unfinished product and pining for the old game. And you are arguing whether you choose to accept that or not. Fact is, we both are. Feel free to continue your argument by yourself. It is pointless to try to discuss this further with you.
Good Luck with your TW08..... |
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studentandsp |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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I can't help myself I keep looking, LOL. phnert44 please let him have the last word, he's a good guy. But he will not stop until he get's the last word in, he does it over at EA Forum too.
I usually don't post but wow, why can't anyone else have a view, a different view point is ok. |
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phnert44 |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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Ok, yes Student. Thanks for your help. |
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DivotMaker |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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"But he will not stop until he get's the last word in, he does it over at EA Forum too." |
Sorry, utter nonsense.
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"I usually don't post but wow, why can't anyone else have a view, a different view point is ok." |
Who said differing point of views aren't okay? Damn sure isn't me. It is okay to disagree, but it isn't okay to get personal about it like you have in your post..... |
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jhdabrick |
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 at
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Point proven. |
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ZB |
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Posted: Thursday, October 1, 2009 at
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Tim
Quick question not sure if you will be able to find out but thought I'd see.
With the advent of new technology hitting the mobile market (Nokia N900, Sony Xperia X2) where platforms such as Windows mobile 6.5 and Linux, Open source ( e.g. Maemo 5) are being used, is there an opportunity for EA to push TW10 down this additional route?
These new devices use pretty powerful CPU's now and with RAM figures of 1GB (in the N900) plus much larger screens, there seems to be an opportunity to bring the game to a wider audience. I just wondered if EA were considering this space? There's also motion based phones like the new Sony Aino coming to market which is aimed at the mobile gaming market and works much like the WII motion.
Also, most modern devices out now, are either based on Android or Symbian platforms and have a full media rich content capability together with a far better web experience, so I am also wondering if TW10 would would on those platforms also, seeing as it is a browser based game.
Personally, I have just pre-ordered my next 2 upgrades and have gone for the Nokia N900 (mostly for business to be honest) and the new Sony Ericsson Satio (Symbian) but the latter is because it was cheaper than purchasing a 12.1megapixel camera on its own LOL However, I think it would be a pretty cool market if TW10 was possible via the mobile market....might bring in a lot more revenue than the PC version as more or less everyone has a mobile and its always with them! Could aid faster development.
Just a few thoughts and of course, I could be barking up the completely wrong tree LOL
Cheers
Zee
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