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Quietly |
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| Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2022 at
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Front nine mostly done. A lot of tough elevation work around 9/10/18 due to a continuous stream. Pretty happy with 18 green complex.
Had to make some adjustments to the structures after seeing this years stuff. They got rid of the dull green advertisers banners and it's now all white with blue accents.
...slow and steady |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Friday, May 20, 2022 at
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Just watched this last week on TV. That is a good sign when you recognize the course from a picture.
My question I kept asking was why is this course so easy, it has a lot of water, I thought the fairways must be really wide to shoot those scores. 60 to 63 was pretty common last week. 18 on Sunday was only 513 but two holes before it was like 496 par 4. |
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| Posted: Friday, May 20, 2022 at
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There are several factors. First, there are a lot of wide fairways, yes.
Second, despite the water hazards on many holes due to several ponds and a continuous stream, most of the bunkers and water are for show. The earlier picture is a prime example. 11 bunkers on the sixth hole but only the four right around the green truly affect play for the pros.
The course has 3 driveable/short par 4's: #3, #6, #14. I love a fun short 4. But my feeling for a good course is for every short 4, there needs to be a corresponding tough four to balance it out and keep the course challenging. There are 3 longish par 4's: 8, 13 and 16, and 2 out of 3 aren't even tough. I wou;d argue in the modern game, for a par 4 to be tough, it needs to either be over 500 yards or have some sort of great hazard strategy.
#8 is 480+ yards par 4, with a wide fairway and no fairway hazards. In the modern game, 480 yards is a pitch and putt. This hole should be one of the harder ones, yet it's an easy par and sometimes even a birdie.
#16 is also 480+ yards par 4. But again, only a few fairway bunkers that can be easily avoided and another par or better awaits.
#13 is the only long four that actually has some teeth. Realistically, it plays around 500 yards and has a fun and challenging hazard design around the landing area. If the course had a few more of these it would have been a lot better off.
There are 4 holes that have no fairway bunkers, and three of the four par 5's are easily reachable in 2 shots. #9 is only about 500 yards. That's an automatic birdie and a half decent shot at eagle.
This course is called a TPC, but it's not. It's been given the clothing of one, but it's really just a well dressed municipal pitch and putt.
I would love to toughen up the design, and it wouldn't even take any more length, but I feel compelled to recreate the course 'as-is'.
So prepare yourself for a really low score. |
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| Posted: Monday, May 30, 2022 at
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Frustrating pond reflection issues at the moment. This course is just a neverending source of problems.
On the bright side, I tried and succeeded at making a new custom water texture which in my opinion blows the stock water... out of the water. The stock courses have amazing pond water when set to the maximum shader level. Multi-layered waves with gravel visible at the bottom of the ponds.
When designers use those same stock water textures though, we get at most one layer of animation and no depth to the water. Nothing can be done about the lack of better animation, but I think I came up with a better base texture which gets close to the same look as the high quality stock courses. |
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Hiker Bob |
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| Posted: Monday, May 30, 2022 at
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| OOhh, la, la, I am salivating already. Have you tried to see if the fish actually show through? I just have never gotten the fish to actually work. |
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| Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 at
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Infuriatingly, I got the fish to work once while working on Sylvan Glen. But I had so much cls stuff going on that I took it out and forgot to save the code for any future projects. I've never been able to recreate whatever it was that I did that made it work.
It certainly would reinfcrce the visual underwater depth if I could just figure it out again. |
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| Posted: Friday, June 17, 2022 at
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So for designers interested, I've attached the dds file of the custom pondbed.
You can make a pond texture in your own libraries if you want. I've been using the Library Creator 2002. No promises if it works in the 06 library creator.
It's fairly straight forward to use. It's a dds file so when you import it into the library creator, it will show up as a yellow smiley face because the LC doesn't fully understand dds files. It still looks fine in the architect and in-game.
I use the following settings:
Main Texture Properties screen:
Types = Water
No properties selected
Terrain Collisions:
Ball Behaviour = Water
Game Lie = Water
Sound = Water
Lie = Water
Render Props:
Other Properties = Pond |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at
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Don't understand how you figured out the secret to the Tiger Woods game, I am playing Torrey Pines and have no idea how you did these things. The planting is top level without the extras.
The only two things I didn't like was the custom flag stick which is taller than normal and with the wind it doesn't render and well as normal and the hole numbers on the camera towers.
You are playing 18 than you look and see those buildings and the apartment building, it like what, how is this even possible. The first question is how did you even make them and how did you even know those building were there?
Than most of the time we the designers put buildings on a course and they never look right or we don't do good gardening but these are out of this world with top level gardening with paths and everything else.
The galleries in 08 are a sloppy mess but your galleries they seem fine and well placed.
Than you have the 08 texture lighting issue and somehow these textures don't seem to be effected.
This blows my mind, how is this even possible, to make a Tennis court. It is off the course so if your not looking at all the extras most people would never see it.
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at
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I'm not sure what you mean by custom flagstick. I did a custom flag, I think. (it looks like you're playing the US Open version of Torrey South). To the best of my recollection, I've never modified the flagstick itself. Didn't know that was possible.
The tv towers are entirely CLS objects (including the camera man) But this was before I figured out how to do the mipmapping with DDS files so things like the numbers look pixelated from a distance. Or did you dislike something else about the numbers?
As for the buildings, I spent a lot of time finding reference material for the course. Google searching for images, videos, etc. Torrey South is a fairly well photographed and videoed course and if you look hard enough you can find stuff that shows the outer perimeter in the background. I used Google Maps to get some good photos as well.
Attached is a screen capture from google maps 360 degree image of the south course where I zoomed in to one of the buildings. In fact, I took that exact image and 'photoshopped' it to use as the building facade texture. So, in fact, that specific building is literally 'photo-realistic'.
Google streetview, google maps photos, and google earth 3d buildings views help a bunch. Turning the 3-d buildings on in google eath gives a great sense of what buildings should be visible from the course as well as their scale/size. Also helps with tree sizing as it shows 3d trees on the course with their elevations at the top.
I set up my galleries so I could control them precisely. In the CLS, I set the galleries to only stand on Cartpath and Weedrough textures only. I then made a rough texture that looked just like the normal rough but was set as weedrough in the library creator. I laid the teture down wherever I wanted galleries to be, so there are little 'bubbles' of gallery texute here and there, but they look and play just like the rest of the rough. |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at
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| As for the tennis court, it's a cls object. I upgraded it for the latest release of the Farmers version of the South Course. I grabbed the tennis court graphic from one of the stock courses using texmod (I want to say Riviera). I saw it and thought it was an improvemnt. A little more detailed and the colour was a little darker and fit the area better. It occurs to me looking at the image, I should have projected an uprght tennis net across the court. Oh well. |
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Hiker Bob |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at
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I too have been messing around with the CLS more and more. Unfortunately, I am not sure I have ever found anything more complicated and difficult than trying to get CLS stuff to work. I did write a tutorial way back, but it is kind of a jumbled mess of stuff. Plus I just keep learning more and more about all the pitfalls of getting to stuff to actually work. The latest thing was I found that .dds images seem to have to be named in all lower case and have a name 8 characters long or less.
http://coursedownloads.com/extras/details.asp?id=673
You can standup images around on your course, but everything needs to be spelled out in the CLS. The texture, the geometry, the actor template, and the source template. I can only get these images to work right in the main planes, XY, XZ, YZ. I can not get anything to go on any angle, so it forces you to have to set things north-south & up-down.
Plus there is that FurryCats packager that you have to run like a thousand times to keep packaging your updated cls.ini, or it will not work. Trial and error is the only way to see if you can get anything to work (paste cls.tbf under your course and test, test, test). I am not trying to scare everyone, just letting you know the gobs of time required for all this.
A big key to getting good looking stuff is the transparency. That net would need transparency to look right. So you really gotta have Photoshop. You have to be able to do the alpha channels, which even I can not seem to get right all the time. I keeping looking at my created image and the dang alpha channel is not there, so do it again. NVidia has a dds plugin for Photoshop that automatically generates the mipmaps (which are just multiple size images, 1024x1024,512x512,256x256).
https://witandfolly.co/photoshop-dds-plugin/
Quietly has become the master of the CLS, but I aim to catch up and help out too where I can! |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at
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Hello Designers. I am now aware of replacing the CLS folder files with special files for more objects, colors and Course Life Systems. I'll be sure to check the Download Page when creating a MyZip file to see if there is a need to download the Course Folder again, unzip and copy the special CLS folder contents into the CLS Folder for the course. Glad I learned about that while working on Quietly's videos.
Looks like we're all having fun.
As stated in the shoutbox today. I prefer using the Random 3 hole choice when setting up a round. I have my player set to novice so the shots can be played close to the edges of water, objects etc. to make the video more interesting. :) |
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| Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at
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HikerBob:
Not sure where you came up with the dds filename thing, but I know they can have upper and lowercase letters and can be longer then 8 characters. MaleGallerynewTex.dds is the name for the male gallery members graphics.
You can place 'stand up' graphics in any direction you want. It takes an extra bit of work though. You have to give it a path with 2 points. A zero point and a 2nd point that goes in the direction you want. Then you set the path speed fairly fast (50+ mph) and make sure to tell it to stop after the path is over. The object will stop after running and be facing the direction you sent it. It can involve tricky math to get very specific angles.
An easy example would be pointing an object on a 45 degree angle to the plot. If you wanted the object to face toward the bottom right corner of the plot, you would set the second coordinate to something like 0.1, 0, -0.1
Here's the code for that example:
Path Count = 2
Path Speed = 50.000000
Path Traversal = Constant
Path Max Speed = 50.000000
Path Start=Beginning
Path Done=stop
Path On Ground = 0
Path1 = 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000
Path2 = 0.1, 0.000000, -0.1
Path Orient=absolute
Now you have an object facing diagonally toward the bottom right. I use small decimal numbers for the path coordinates so that the object doesn't move too far off it's origin point.
For sure if you want to make new things beyond what's available then photoshop skills are a must. |
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Hiker Bob |
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| Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at
10:28:45 AM |
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| I think the name thing on the dds files was because I wanted the image to be packed into the cls.tbf. I am now thinking that is why my sasquatch image would not pack into the tbf file and had to be outside, just like your gallery images had to be outside the tbf. Thanks for the tips, more to investigate! |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at
12:48:42 PM |
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Quietly,
Than have no idea why the course had a larger than normal flag stick and it would not render or move but whatever I ran your course on my old windows XP machine.
Took the CLS out to see what this controlled. The flag went back to normal. I thought all those buildings were CLS and the awesome fence line but that was not the case.
My question is so how did you know the size of the Tennis court than fit it perfect in to that area you created for it? Than 20 feet down from the Tennis course you have a light blue texture what was that one for?
The hang glider, how did you plot that in the air. It is the coolest effect.
Texture question:
You are loading up .dds textures in to the LC and it is working? On my texmod textures I am doing .png files and they render fine. Never tried this in the LC.
On 18 you created a texture on the water that is a worn out blend? How did you do that one?
Again the planting and tree selection on Torrey was absolutely perfect.
Believe it or not Torrey Pines was an easy golf course, I played it in the 80s it was maybe $14 for the round. I didn't remember the wild areas coming in to play much and the greens were relatively flat. The 1st hole was gradually up hill and 18 was pretty flat overall. I do recall the other par 5 on the back that hole was hilly, down a hill and than back up. On some holes you could look down the massive cliffs to the beaches. I have my issues with the USGA but this course they did a good make over. Back when I played the course the following year recorded the Andy Williams Open and Steve Pate shot like 19 under. Torrey pines playing Jr golf held one of the majors and if you won it you got a full ride. If you even played in it, colleges would look at you. I failed to qualify but my buddy made it and he ended up going to university of Georgia
Going to do a short demo on working with cart paths it may help you as well, will explain as I go.
Last off as I asked Hiker Bob, would it be possible to grab the St. Andrews town out of the CLS and put that on a flat new custom TCA landplot? Even the burn starting to think the liner on that was cls.
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Hyno Designs |
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B-Day: 10/30/1976 (48) |
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| Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at
3:41:43 PM |
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This is one of the best courses ever made for the TW series. However just going to point a few things out and a method to fix these minor issues.
This cart path is hand drawn and it merges many roads in to one path. If these shapes get rather large with many points it will automatically distort the points making the shape crooked.
The red circles are blending two shapes in to one and the corners stick out. How we fix the corners is using the 3 dot cornering method.
This picture below is a similar style merging but it has no corners popping out. |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at
3:43:36 PM |
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Working with Cart Paths:
Lets start off simple
The Elliot tee box method.
Create a small path and extend the width
Next trace a shape on top of it
3 dots in each corner
(This is key when merging paths later)
Note:
Always work with colored textures this makes it easier to see
We create a basic hole and want a straight cut to the green for the rough effect
We make a path, add some width and run it to the hole
We use the main shape of the green area and extend it around the hole
Than we bring the shapes in and trace the hole we try to make sure none of the points are on the blue area and fits as close as possible to the shapes we are tracing
We create a cart path that will not merge in to itself
Now we use the TeeOffTowersey cart path method and draw a little shape to blend the paths.
Next example:
Drew a bunch of paths and use the blending method over and over again
If you want this to be one continuous path you got to trace the shapes. Use the 3 dots in each corner method so the corners blend natural. |
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| Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at
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| "...The latest thing was I found that .dds images seem to have to be named in all lower case and have a name 8 characters long or less." |
Wow. Now I'm a little mad at myself. The lower case thing was the problem. I can now apparently pack all items in to the cls.tbf file. No more need to leave anything outside in the folder. I've got both the larger galleries and all other cls objects working while compressed in the tbf file.
Thanks for that Hiker Bob. If I'd known that was all it took, I could have saved myself and many users a great many headaches...
Course is almost done. Soon ready for testing, I hope. |
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rubencubo |
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| Posted: Thursday, July 28, 2022 at
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| "...The latest thing was I found that .dds images seem to have to be named in all lower case and have a name 8 characters long or less." |
Wow. Now I'm a little mad at myself. The lower case thing was the problem. I can now apparently pack all items in to the cls.tbf file. No more need to leave anything outside in the folder. I've got both the larger galleries and all other cls objects working while compressed in the tbf file.
Thanks for that Hiker Bob. If I'd known that was all it took, I could have saved myself and many users a great many headaches...
Course is almost done. Soon ready for testing, I hope." |
It looks spectacular! Wonderful work, Quietly. |
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Hiker Bob |
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| Posted: Thursday, July 28, 2022 at
9:34:29 PM |
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Heya, glad I could help. And I am now able to get waterfalls to tilt on an angle too. That can be done by tweaking the path. So if you have a waterfall path like this:
Path Count = 6
Path1 = 0,10,0
Path2 = 0,9,0
Path3 = 0,7,0
Path4 = 0,5,0
Path5 = 0,3,0
Path6 = 0,1,0
If your waterfall is horizontal on the plot, it can be tilted in the Z-direction to align to terrain better like so:
Path Count = 6
Path1 = 0,10,2.25
Path2 = 0,9,2.0
Path3 = 0,7,1.5
Path4 = 0,5,1.0
Path5 = 0,3,0.5
Path6 = 0,1,0
I too have a new course getting closer to completion. It is a surprise, a unique total fantasy course.
Been a long haul on this one Quietly, I bet it will be spectacular.
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