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Goro |
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| Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2009 at
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Please forgive me asking a silly question. Since I don't have TW08, I am short of Knowledge on course making on it.
Is it more difficult to make a pano for 08 than for, say 04 or 05?
I have noticed that big panos(hope you guess I mean) like the copper canyon had decreased rapidly after TW06. Frankly speaking, 08-courses look very similar to me from thier screen shots. I have not played any of them, so it is just a impression from what they look. Please do not get hurt, designers, please.
I am just curious. Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2009 at
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| edited by: axe360 on
Saturday, August 22, 2009 at
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I feel that there are some awesome panos for 08 and I was a very big fan of coppercanyon, loved it.
Maybe someone else will answer your question about making them, maybe JbCalg. |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2009 at
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| I think there is plenty of choice for 08 panos. We have desert panos, mountain panos, scottish panos, ocean panos, treeline panos, plus all the 07s work as well. |
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Goro |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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Thanks axe,
so, the difficulty of making is not the answer to the modest panos in 08.
Thanks Bobby,
perhaps, I should look at more of 08's screen shots.
by the way, I love your Whistling Straits very much.
My impression: the trend of course making is going towards the realism?
08 panos are generally modester than 05 panos.
08 courses generally have fewer flowers than 03-05 courses have.
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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the screenshots don't always give an accurate picture, it depends on the perspective used when taking image
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pano libraries are no more difficult to make for 07/08 than earlier, just a slightly different method/tools because the horizon dropped by 1000 feet between 06 and 07/08
- 07/08 panos are the only ones that will display now, earlier ones are below horizon
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07/08 panos might tend to be more subdued/realistic compared to some earlier ones - yes
i made 2 that are more "in your face", modeled on the type that Big, and others, used to make
take a look at bgrav's course Revelation
here: http://www.coursedownloads.com/coursesource/coursedetails.asp?id=7482
also: Manzanita Pass GC by Axe
http://www.coursedownloads.com/coursesource/previews.asp?id=7542
images don't show it too well, but also a more prominent pano
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flowers/planting have more effect on game play, so designers need to be more careful how they are used, where they are used, how many different ones etc
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jbcalg Signature |
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JBCalg
Self Promotion doesnt make it so
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Goro |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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Thanks JB,
yes, what you introduced were what i had wanted to see.
FjordMid is fabulous! and i found a couple of good mountainous panos on 08.
i have realized what i dont like about 08 is Trees. since many designers use mainly that broadleaf, i cant tell which course is which. if i fail to love TWO, will buy 08 instead. lol
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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thank you, i had a lot of fun creating that one, and it seemed to be what bgrav wanted for that course (a definite download if/when you get 08)
generally, i think there have been fewer 'extreme' or 'fantasy' type courses - even the fictional ones tend to be more 'realistic'
so it's natural that the panos reflect what the designers are doing |
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jbcalg Signature |
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JBCalg
Self Promotion doesnt make it so
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Goro |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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Hello JB,
"in your face"?
i know i am insensitive, if you would like to say something, please be straight.
i know i speak very roughly and there would be a number of people who get sufferd from my expression. if you tell me that, i will at least try not to.
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i would like to apologize for my last message saying that i will buy 08 instead.
The 08 lovers would have felt that they were abused. Sorry.
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above this had been written before i pushed F5.
dictionaries are always 10 years old. dont blame me. lol
you are really a nice guy, and my pal if i may say so.
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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"
i made 2 that are more "in your face", modeled on the type that Big, and others, used to make
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Goro, I think all JB meant was that these 2 pano's are LARGER THAN LIFE so to speak, you know, they kind of POP OUT at you..
And that's funny jb, the pictures of your pano at Manzanita don't show it to well. lol...
That has to be one of the top pano's for 08, IMO... :)
Yall be nice now.. |
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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yes axe, that's exactly what i meant
'in your face' in my post meant: larger than life, larger than usual, very noticeable, prominent, etc
no worries - written communication is always difficult - and when there is translation or interpretation added - sometimes the meaning isn't clear |
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jbcalg Signature |
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Goro |
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| Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 at
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Hi axe,
i really appreciate your comment. now i got it. jb's 2 panos were "in your face". That's right. They must have been challenging for the demand of 08 designers.
And even if the pano at Manzanita didn't show it to well, i love its very balance of modesty and absolute existence. looking forward to play Banff in 08.
pushed F5 lol
got your message jb, thanks
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jimi |
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| Posted: Monday, August 24, 2009 at
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As for flowers etc. designers are forced to use the stock libraries as it's virtually iompossible to create your own. Objects from older libraries than the game you are designing for often give you all sorts of rendering problems in the game, so that makes for even more limited options.
Making panos isn't that hard, really, but it's very boring work. Maybe that's why there aren't that many. |
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Goro |
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| Posted: Monday, August 24, 2009 at
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Thanks jimi,
Playing TW series has a relaxation purpose on me more than enjoying serious competitions. So the beautifulness and the tranquility matter most. Elements of puzzle(play The Gourge for 2003) for conquering the course must be in it, too.
I see many designers including you are making eye-candies, weren't there flowers? If we can't make the flower libraries for 08, that's really a disappointment.
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Monday, August 24, 2009 at
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trees, flowers, bushes have always come from stock libraries i believe
custom libraries provide structures (houses, bridges, teemarkers, benches, etc, etc), textures (grass, rough, fairway etc), sounds etc |
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jbcalg Signature |
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JBCalg
Self Promotion doesnt make it so
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Goro |
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| Posted: Monday, August 24, 2009 at
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Thanks JB,
I didnt know that. So the fewer flowers on 08 courses are truly the designers will, now? Or perhaps there are good numbers of courses that adopted plenty of flower libraries, and I just cant find them? Anyway, the useable libraries are limited to 07/08 only for the current designers. Thats a pitty.
and this must be a stupid question, but i dare
Is there some way of adding 1000feet to older panos? i can easily guess every member of the communities tried and dead. What's the merit for EA on this? |
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Monday, August 24, 2009 at
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more flowers, structures etc etc = higher point count = sloooow, laggy courses for some
useable libraries can be any year, but earlier custom libraries might cause issues, slowness etc
plus the lighting changed in the game, so some earlier libraries show very bright / florescent
only the original library / pano designer could change the file so he/she would have to remake the pano
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jbcalg Signature |
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JBCalg
Self Promotion doesnt make it so
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Goro |
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| Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at
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Thanks JB,
i dont know how good the new lighting system, but i personally wouldnt choose it making all the possibilities of using treasures from the past behind. and i cant understand why the courses and libraries are limited to thier designers to alter. Is it EA's intention? if not, making a place for "free to alter files" in the site, and designers who yield his/her copyrights upload thier original files to there would be nice. since it hasnt been done yet, there may be a hurdle of some sort though. |
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at
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| edited by: jbcalg on
Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at
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its not a matter of choosing to use the lighting or not - the game engine has changed, so what looked good in early editions, can look bad now
courses and libraries are designed in the course architect or library creator, using one file format (;a different one for each) and then compiled to a final for use in the game
- without the source file, you cannot change the final result
alter files - it would be possible for someone to use the source file for a course and remove all the trees, rough etc (;making it a very easy course to play) and publish it using the same name
- so someone using the easy version could win tournaments against players using the original course
- thats not something anyone would want
so there are safeguards in place to protect the designers work product and hopefully prevent any bad behaviour by others
Danut Golf, and others, have provided beginner files for others to complete according to how they want, but did it in a way where no 2 designers could use the same final name in the game
- so there is help for new designers available |
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Self Promotion doesnt make it so
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jimi |
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| Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at
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Goro, may I compliment you on your English which is very comprehensible for a Japanese person with a translator.
As for the game, the software evolves, like everything in this world, to the point where older versions become incompatible. EA has changed the rendering of the light in the game. That's why objects and textures from older stock libraries don't look very good in the game.
Designers can make their own structures and textures for the game. But trees, bushes and flowers are impossible as the program we use for 3D design would add an impossible number of points to the course, making it unplayable. The point count is an indication of the amount of detail in the course. The more detailed your terrain work, the more points. The same goes for structures and objects. Each has its own points total, which adds to the total number of points on the course. For instance, if you use too many structures with a high points count, your pano will not render properly anymore. On my Lying Aces course, that's the reason why there's no pano. The point count on the aeroplanes was too high to allow for a pano.
I know this sounds complicated, but I hope it helps you understand.
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Goro |
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| Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at
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JB, jimi, i appreciate you taking your valuable time.
jb, i've understood why "alter-freely" scheme isnt adopted. Though i still think that panos could just succeed in the scheme, perhaps there are not so many people who want to use old panos in 08. and if making panos isnt too difficult, it is faster to make new ones than converting old ones. i got it.
and i am not to go making courses, just thinking They Are too good to forgo.
jimi, you playing guitar? jimi is a very good name for a guitarist.
i felt something close to sadness when i read you saying, "the software evolves, like everything in this world, to the point where older versions become incompatible".
yes. that's right. Sorry. being not so young, it gets me. lol
about 3D points, i got it. you guys are all too kind.....
beware! he's drinkin beer :b
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