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Squirrely |
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United States of America |
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| Joined: 3/21/2009 |
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B-Day: 11/30/1969 (54) |
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| Posted: Thursday, May 21, 2009 at
2:22:37 PM |
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at
2:23:00 PM
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I have been trying to make a pot bunker, but every time I try to optimize the bottom part, it just gets bad.
How do you do this or is it like the waste bunker in Homeboys hole making tutorial, and you leave it alone?
Just trying to squeeze out whatever performance I can get because Im worried this course isnt going to run on lower end systems very good. I have a 8800GT 512mb, and Im only getting around 20-30 FPS right now, but there is some hope for this course. I still have a lot of optimizing to do while finishing the remaining 16 holes, and I sure hope it all works out. I know one thing, I will take a whole different approach on the next course I try to build. Many mistakes I have made on this one, but Im learning some hard lessons from those mistakes.
Just call me the repair man with this course, and if there is some kinda of badge from lifting shapes left & right, I get one after all this....... :P
Here is what Im talking about below
The bottom sand part of these pot bunkers, and when I put a hill shape on them after sinking them. The point count goes up, and is there anyway to get it back down ?
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Homeboy |
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| Joined: 1/20/2006 |
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B-Day: 10/3/1968 (56) |
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| Posted: Thursday, May 21, 2009 at
3:15:58 PM |
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The master of links-style courses, larry86, did the following tut that should be helpful:
http://www.tigerwoodscommunity.net//index.php?autocom=downloads&showfile=1526 |
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Squirrely |
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United States of America |
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| Joined: 3/21/2009 |
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B-Day: 11/30/1969 (54) |
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| Posted: Thursday, May 21, 2009 at
4:06:11 PM |
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Thursday, May 21, 2009 at
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Thanks
Didnt even know there where tutorials on that site too, but Ive only been there once before. Larry86 Royal Troon Golf Club 08 course played so much like a real links course with the cool bounces, and looked so good too. Looks like Larry86 likes links courses like I do by looking at his designer page. What is kinda funny, I never played a links course before because there arent many hills here in Florida, but I just love the way they look from what Ive seen on TV. The British Open is right up their with watching the Masters for me.
Not sure what this course Im making is turning into, but its sorta linkish with some hilly mountain terrain, but nothing to crazy on the playing surface itself. Guess Ill see what it develops into, but I went into with it with a links playing style in mind, but other thoughts have popped in my head during the making process. Not even sure what kind of plan Im going to do for the plantings yet. Learning that I need to go into the next design with a much better plan. I will try to learn that TA program, and make a real course one day hopefully, but I still would like to make up course too. It been real fun doing this, and I have all kind of ideas popping up in my head since I started this.
Squirrely
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Squirrely |
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United States of America |
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| Joined: 3/21/2009 |
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B-Day: 11/30/1969 (54) |
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| Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at
9:30:28 AM |
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Haven't gotten my e-mail validation from TWC so I couldn't download the pot bunker tutorial from Larry86. I think that how it works on TWC, but I'm still kinda new to all this stuff so I may be wrong, and I will go read the rules on TWC sometime soon to see what I need to do. Would like to know whatever techniques Larry86 is teaching. He makes some sweet link courses.
I figured out how to optimize the pot hole bunkers finally by not messing with the sides, but only doing the bottom part with moving a few inches in until the (Use as a Shape) line has no spikes or is messed up looking. Took those 3 pothole bunkers guarding that Par 3 green down from 7,000---10,000 or so points to like 300-600 total points now. Big difference there, and even though I have made many mistakes with making this 1st course, I think all this is going to pay off in the long run with knowing what to prevent next time around. Amazing how the answer is right in front of me, but I just couldn't see past not including the sides of the pothole bunkers with the optimizing process. Plus all this repairing I have to do by going back is gong to help too, it sure can't hurt down the road. I think I could build a whole new course much faster than staying with this one, but I will still learn some valuable lessons before all is said & done while finishing this course. Plus, I really like how this course is turning out, and want to see it to the finish line.
Finding that sweet spot with smoothing & optimizing is pretty hard at times, and I can see why you said this Homeboy.....
"I would say the hardest thing to learn as a new designer is the proper amount of smoothing/optimizing to keep the point count down, but also leaving your elevations intact"
That's what is going to make a difference in what I'm going be able to add to a course so it doesn't take to of a hard hit on the performance side. My elevation work I've done with my course now was looking like the Pano, but I have to get the point count down, and find that balance so it will play OK. Gotta give up some things with the look for performance.
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nuttywoody |
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| Joined: 8/9/2008 |
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| Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at
11:26:09 AM |
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| edited by: nuttywoody on
Sunday, May 24, 2009 at
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I too am experimenting with these on my current project. I have been keeping them relatively simple.
I start with a circle of bunker texture inside a circle of dirt inside a circle of first cut.
I drop all three. Then I use the first cut as a shape, expand 2 or 3 feet and use the hill tool and lower 0.5 to 0.8 feet to creat a little bowl around the pot.
Next I click on the dirt and pick up with children, and use the bunker tool to lower the pot shape 2-1/2 to 4-1/2 feet, and drop.
If the lip ends up too sharp, I use the dirt as a shape, expand a few inches, and soften on the first click once or twice.
Then just optimize as you would with regular bunkers.
I dont fiddle around with the sand in the bottom. Ive tried this, and I think the original 2-shape drop leaves a better countour.
The trick is to control the proportion between the inner bunker shape and the dirt. The closer they are the more steep the walls. I always offset the binker shape so its a bit off-center, making the green-side wall a bit less steep.
I also try to be consistent in construction, yet I vary the diameter, depth, and groupings to make them seem natural. PLacing them in a slope is a bit tricker but has a nice effect. Try flattening in these situations before lowering your 2-shapes. A little care in smoothing around the edges may be good here.
I have been reading up on the web about how rea-life players feel about proportion and placement. I like the simplicity of them. Search the photo sites and google images to see as many examples as you can. Some walls are steep grass, (;how do the mow these?) and some are earth. I have even see some with rough masonry or wood planks.
Be warned some players have violent emotional allergic reactions to pot bunkers in the fairway. Many do not think its funny to hide them just out of sight. (;Unfair! Unfair!) |
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nuttywoody |
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Course Staff |
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| Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at
11:29:22 AM |
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| Plenty of fairway on all sides! If you hit this, blame yourself, not the architect! |
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Squirrely |
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| Joined: 3/21/2009 |
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B-Day: 11/30/1969 (54) |
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| Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at
6:08:02 PM |
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Saturday, May 23, 2009 at
6:11:00 PM
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Oooooooooh......
Those bunkers are going to get some golfers all hidden, I like that......:P
Thanks for all the good info..........
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Hyno Designs |
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| Joined: 10/24/2004 |
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B-Day: 10/30/1976 (48) |
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| Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at
7:07:08 PM |
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| edited by: Hyno Designs on
Saturday, May 23, 2009 at
7:36:00 PM
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I like pot bunkers, they are fun, and you can really work them in to the terrain. One of the things I liked was bunker lashes, to me it added a cool graphic effect. The sod walls from St. Andrews works ok, after a while I kind of got sick of it. So I made up a texture that makes the rivots smaller. It can be found in the JH Talyor Lib.
What style is best to use? I dont know, I have my own methods that worked over the years. I never wanted the bunkers to be impossible however I wanted certain gameplay effects to occur with in each bunker. The effects vary.
The method u are using above was something similar to what I used way back when. After a few months, I kind of switched methods, it is all personal taste.
Some of these courses have 200+ Bunkers so sometimes you need to find something easy to do over and over. You can make really good pot bunkers, however it can take a lot of time....I just use a simple method.
Tip: When you create something like the picture you did above, sometimes when you re-do the bunker it comes out better, This is because you already worked the terrain and have something to work from. I use to change my mind a lot, and re-do bunkers.
You also need to learn the best method to destroy a pot bunkers. That is how you can really work them in to the terrain.
Ideas:
You need to Opt the inner bunker texture! Get the points down!
In this pictures I re-worked the left bunkers a few times, I wanted the effect if you pull your shot left on to the green and it is a little strong it falls in to the bunkers. I also wanted the bunkers to be lowered to the level of the green. The front bunker I wanted to be a tad higher than the green level but be raised in to the green itself. However I didnt want the putting surface to slope from front to back, the reverse, back to front. The bunker lashes were used only on the front bunker, and this was to create a nice view when you are putting from passed the pin. I also liked looking at the high grass when hitting out of the bunker. (;The sad part is I remember this and this was 4 years ago!) |
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ChadLegend |
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| Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at
1:36:27 PM |
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| Here are a couple of shots of some wicked pot bunkers..Recreating these would be a challenge! |
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ChadLegend Signature |
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No one ever says Its only a game when their team is winning. |
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ChadLegend |
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| Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at
1:38:12 PM |
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| and Norman at Muirfield.. |
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ChadLegend Signature |
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No one ever says Its only a game when their team is winning. |
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ChadLegend |
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B-Day: 10/12/1963 (61) |
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| Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at
1:44:25 PM |
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| and here is how one flows into the terrain...looks scary! |
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ChadLegend Signature |
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No one ever says Its only a game when their team is winning. |
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Squirrely |
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B-Day: 11/30/1969 (54) |
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| Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at
11:19:25 PM |
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| edited by: Squirrely on
Sunday, May 24, 2009 at
11:23:00 PM
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I just love those pictures of them nasty pot bunkers. Nothing brings the fear like a well placed pot bunker protecting a green or in the fairway all hidden like. Something about maybe having to hit the ball backwards that messes a golfers mind all up.
I gotta redo all my pot bunkers I[ve done so far. I didnt realize making the wall to thin made the ball travel through the wall itself. Another huge lesson Ive had to learn in my first attempt at making a full course. At least I found out by the 3rd hole & not the 18th hole.......:P
Squirrely
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longbomb |
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| Posted: Friday, May 29, 2009 at
9:54:41 PM |
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Just figured I would show you guys this one sweet Pot bunker I played out of
I am 6 ft 2in tall |
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Squirrely |
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United States of America |
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| Joined: 3/21/2009 |
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B-Day: 11/30/1969 (54) |
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| Posted: Saturday, May 30, 2009 at
9:23:04 AM |
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Holy smokes............
Now that some serious intimidation right there with that stinker staring you in the face......
:P
Squirrely
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