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ZB |
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| Posted: Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
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| edited by: ZB on
Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
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Just a quick Post
There has recently been a trait that has been sending shockwaves through an ordinary man/woman, on this very site!
It appears we have members who can write but cant read! I mean, how on earth are they supposed to read our answers when they cant even read the numerous tutorials available on the very subjects they are questioning? Jeez...beats me!
This week alone, has seen 10 questions posted by the same person, all questions relating to quite fundamental elements of course design and all of which are covered in no more than 2 of the tutorials available on this very site. What is also slightly worrying, is that over the last month or so, they have not been alone in this plight, as others seem to be affected the same way!(;Harsh? well please just put it down to British humour!)
Tutorials take a great deal of time, effort, planning and thought and are not just strung together in a matter of a few minutes. I know this as I have in the past, authored technical instruction manuals, so when I see designers here, put their own personal time and effort into the creation of a toolset for new designers (;as well as more experienced ones...I still refer to some of these tutorials) it makes my blood boil that new designers simply dont bother to put their own effort into actually reading them, especially when more than a few heavy hints have been dropped for doing so.
These tutorials have been very kindly put together for all our benefit and to simply bypass them to ask what have been rather fundamental design questions, simply beggars belief! (;Another thought would be what would a real course recreation be like from these guys, if they cant put some basic effort in today?)
Dont expect respect until some personal effort has been invested.
Of course, due to the kind nature of members here, all questions will normally be answered but to be honest, that is not the point. What is the point is simple - Why should our best designers in the community put more of their personal time and effort into creating these tutorials if they are simply going to be bypassed because people cant be bothered to read them?
Rant over
Zee
PS: Here are the tutorial urls for the 07 and 08 games, for those left who can read.....
07:- http://www.coursedownloads.com/extras/viewcat.asp?gameid=9
08:- http://www.coursedownloads.com/extras/viewcat.asp?gameid=11 |
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R0Bkh |
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| Posted: Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
2:03:10 AM |
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| Yes,but do you think anyone will read this ??@! |
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BladeRunnerZ |
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| Posted: Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
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The problem i think is that a lot of the tuts are distributed under the Utilities tab.
They should all be moved to the Tutorials tab under new heading 'Course Design Tutorials'
Most of the headings under the Tutorials tab are empty which could lead some to think that there are no tuts at all. |
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Golf can best be defined as an endless series of tragedies obscured by the occasional miracle
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JSJarvis |
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| Posted: Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
7:18:15 AM |
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| edited by: JSJarvis on
Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
8:33:00 AM
Updated to add new info on Tutorials section |
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When the new site is launched, this will be the case. But for now, the tutorials will remain where they are. The current setup of the Tutorials area does not allow for uploading of files, such as Word or PDF documents. That is why the Course Design tutorials were placed under Utilities.
***UPDATE: I have gone through this morning and created a work-around for the Tutorials section so that all of the current tutorials that are in the Utilities area can be seen in the Tutorials area as well. All of the Course Design tutorials I could find are now available here:
http://www.coursedownloads.net/tutorials/tutorials.asp?id=5 |
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Homeboy |
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| Posted: Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
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Thanks a lot Jeff ... hopefully that will help!
And thanks for the rant Zee ... exactly what I was thinking too. LOL |
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BladeRunnerZ |
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South Africa |
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| Posted: Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
10:31:57 AM |
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Much better... Now you need to put a big 'blinking' banner at the top of the page so everyone knows.
Lets see how long it takes before someone asks how to do a bunker (lol) |
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Golf can best be defined as an endless series of tragedies obscured by the occasional miracle
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Thursday, January 8, 2009 at
9:38:03 PM |
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| Gr8 thread Zee. |
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TruBluMich |
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| Posted: Friday, January 9, 2009 at
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I agree 110% with this post but I also disagree with it 10%. That still means its a 100% correct.
What I mean is this, Its great to see new designers getting excited about creating courses. However for myself, the staff and veteran designers it can get a little annoying and frustrating to answer the same question over and over and over again. Which is why most veteran designers at sometime or another create a tutorial on how to do something. Now the last thing we want to do is run off a new designer because they are asking a question that is covered in a tutorial. I know its there, you know its there, you know how to find it, I know how to find it.
When you see a post that is covered in a tutorial, simply reply with "So and SO has done an excellent tutorial on this" Add a link to the tutorial if you want. Just let the new designers know that there is a tutorial and people spend a lot of time on them to make life easy for those just picking up the CA for the first time.
Then if they keep asking the same question over and over....you can tell them how to do it wrong, then they will just read the tutorial because no one else seems to know wtf they are doing. |
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ChadLegend |
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| Posted: Friday, January 9, 2009 at
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| Perfect response Mich...I have studied every tutorial this site has to offer...until you offer up your first attempt...you can only see what others think....In my case..Jimi did an excellent breakdown of my first design..and I learned from it...constructive remarks are needed..and it really helps...those that pop courses up without education...need to go back to the beginning..like smilinggoats videos...I still learn from them...and Homeboys continued expertise.... |
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No one ever says Its only a game when their team is winning. |
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TruBluMich |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
11:40:00 AM |
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"PS: Here are the tutorial urls for the 07 and 08 games, for those left who can read.....
07:- http://www.coursedownloads.com/extras/viewcat.asp?gameid=9
08:- http://www.coursedownloads.com/extras/viewcat.asp?gameid=11
Intersesting that I cut and paste these two addresses and received not one tutorial on course design. T" |
http://www.coursedownloads.com/tutorials/tutorials.asp?id=5
Jeff moved the tutorials from those pages to the correct section of the site. |
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jbcalg |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
11:48:52 AM |
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| edited by: jbcalg on
Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
11:51:00 AM
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not to belabour the point
but in the 2nd link, heres what shows
Course Installation Tools (;7)
Custom Golfers (;67)
Custom Golf Balls (;26)
Custom Leaderboards and Scorecards (;1)
Game Display (;18) - 1 File waiting for approval
Course Design Tools (;11)
Miscellaneous (;12)
Smiling Goats Video Tutorials (;12)
Course Design Tools (;11) contains
McBruce`s Pano Tutorial
Author: McBruce
Simplified Terrain Assist Tutorial
Author: Homeboy
Complete Design of a Hole
Author: Homeboy
Course Design Tips
Author: Homeboy
Splash + Logo Tutorial
Author: JSJarvis
Tee Box Tutorial
Author: Homeboy
Green Complex Design Tutorial
Author: Homeboy
and the S_G videos do take some time to watch ... but well worth it
4 on basic CA things, etc etc
but do what you want :)
edit: guess theyre cross referenced now |
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========
JBCalg
Self Promotion doesnt make it so
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jmeier |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
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"
Although I do know where to find the tutorials sometimes it can be faster to get a direct answer to a direct problem without having to watch a 15 minute video addressing an entire topic. I have gone through 4 of the tutorials and they are very well done and informative. There are many here who have helped me and probably don't mind doing so and I thank them." |
True, it may be faster for you, but not so for those of us designers that answer many of the same questions over and over. The new designers need to take the time to go through the videos and things first. We all made our investments in time before we were able to answer these questions. We don't want to discourage ant up and coming designers, but there are plenty of great resources out there. |
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| Tour Manager and Design Manager of the CGX Tour, the best place online for PGA Style tournament play on custom courses. Often imitated, never duplicated. |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
4:46:44 PM |
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Come on gabagoo, were just tryen to say, hey, read all the material you can first, then if you still can't figure it out, post questions, that's all were sayen.
That's how we did it, sure it's easier to just ask, but you will learn alot more if you try to find it in a tutorial.
Were all friends here in this community and that includes you bro.
Peace |
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Gunpower61 |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
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Well said Axe.......
Not always easy for new designers....they have to find a lot of info before they can start creating a course.
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jimi |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
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| I can see merit in both points. Of course a newbie designer has to read the tutorials before he starts designing a course and experiment a bit with the different tools. But I think what Gabagoo is referring to is when you run into a specific problem. It can be quite a task to find the answer to a specific question in a tutorial. Like somebody asked the other day how to select all identical objects on a course. That question will undoubtedly be answered in one or more of the tutorials, but it won't always be easy to find. Personally as a designer I don't mind too much having to answer such questions. It takes just a minute of my time. I myself tend to forget that the most obvious solution to many CA problems is deleting the swap files, lol. |
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Homeboy |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
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Select all identical objects: Tip #6 in Course Design Tips tutorial.
I write these things hoping that people refer to them. I have a handy-dandy copy of Hiker Bob's CLS tutorial printed off sitting next to my computer for reference. Same with a copy of my TA tutorial that I find helpful to look at when I haven't touched the TA in months. |
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jmeier |
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| Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 at
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| I also have a copy of every tutorial I have found in with me design tools. Stuff From Smiling Goats, Homeboy, Jevon, Jimi, Jimbo64, etc. Along with the special stuff for the TA, CLS, Panos, etc. Never have to much info, and it is nice to see how others do the work as many heads are better than one. |
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| Tour Manager and Design Manager of the CGX Tour, the best place online for PGA Style tournament play on custom courses. Often imitated, never duplicated. |
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ZB |
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| Posted: Sunday, January 11, 2009 at
2:56:21 AM |
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| edited by: ZB on
Sunday, January 11, 2009 at
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I downloaded Homeboys tutorial for design of a complete hole, yesterday and found he was doing a few things different to me, some the same...those that were different I have taken onboard and going to give them a go on Poppy Hills 09 (;PGAX) which I am currently working on, as they seem to be better than my own methods.
I think that this one tutorial is well worth the 10 mins it took me to read and to be honest, it would most probably have taken far more time and several individual posts for me to ask the questions it answered, added to that, more time by designers such as Homeboy, to invest their time to answer them, so I really dont think the argument that it can be faster to get a direct answer to a direct problem stands up, as all questions/problems are direct and are all covered in this and the other excellent tutorials.
When I first started designing for the TW series (;previous experience includes course design for old VGA games way back in the mid 90s) just like other designers here, I spent time to go thru the videos and other tutorials, before I even opened the CA. Its the same approach I take to anything I dont know...I read the manual first.
I was just trying to suggest that it may be better to read first, then ask questions, because there seemed to be no acknowledgement that this had been done...ie in work, if one of my team came to me with a problem but hadnt tried to find that answer themselves or had not at least tried to work out a solution, I wouldnt give them any of my time. However, if they had at least read the instruction manual or had illustrated an attempt at figuring out a solution before coming to me, then I would give them all the time they wanted.
I think for many designers here, the same goes and I was just trying to point that out, albeit with some dry British wit. LOL
OH and PS Homeboy...I have your TA tutorial open on my second screen when designing, as I still suffer upside down plots or no plots at all when I dont refer to it LMAO |
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