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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Friday, October 12, 2012 at
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| edited by: LinksPro on
Friday, October 12, 2012 at
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This topic may have been brought up before but I think it needs mentioning again. I appreciate all the hard work course designers put into creating some beautiful courses. My problem is with extreme elevations. There is nothing worse than haveing your second shot to a green that is 28 yards above or below your feet. Now on some courses you can add/subtract yardage to compensate for this and some you dont. It is my understanding that course designers have no input as to how much you will need to add/subtract to your shot (;if any) for the increase or decrease in elevations. So why make holes like that if you have no control over them? It ruins a perfectly nice course. Ive played golf IRL for about 30 years. Played hundreds of courses on 2 continents and I think I have seen one hole that had a crazy elevation. Try to make the game as real as possible.
And with that said, can anyone explain why on some courses with extreme elevations that you need to add or subtract for your shot to get the correct distance and why on some you dont? |
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BGravoliciou |
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| Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2012 at
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take 1/2 the yardage off your shot
6 yard's of elevation downhill shot = 3 yards off your distance
24 yard's of elevation downhill shot = 12 yards off your distance
just do the same for uphill shots ..... it seems to me like the ball will roll out much more on the uphill shot as the downhill shot will almost always stick.
its pretty simple really and does make a round that much more challenging and more enjoyable imo.
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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2012 at
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| I've been playing PC golf since Jack Nicklaus Golf in 1990 or so. I don't have any problem calculating elevations, most of the time. It's only when there are extreme elevations like 20 plus yards. I played one course where I had a 20 yard elevation to the pin, calculated the distance just as you say and put the ball close. The next hole or a few holes later I had almost the same shot, yardage, wind, and elevation. I calculated again but this time the ball went 20 yards over the green like the elevation meant nothing. If designers have no input or adjusting as to distances that need to be hit for extreme elevations then keep them out of the game. Courses are more beautiful when designed as close to actual courses than fantasy. |
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BGravoliciou |
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| Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 at
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if a ball goes 20yards over its inteneded target, i'd doubt its the elevations fault...probably a glitch in the game.
play that hole again and I'd think it would play fine.
what hole are you talking about? 20yards of elevation isn't even that severe. |
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edintampa4 |
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| Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 at
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| edited by: Gunpower61 on
Sunday, October 14, 2012 at
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I had similar problems but after a while, I am talking in 2006.. other players gave me a simple formula for selecting your yardage with severe elevation changes. I am going to use a distance of 100 yards with an elevation of 20 yards. When calculating an elevation that rises 20 yards from tee to pin, simply add the yardage to your club distance: 100yds + 20yds = 120yds. Set your distance and with practice you will learn what arc to use. When calculating an elevation that declines 20 yards from tee to pin, you will subtract 60% of the elevation drop from your distance: 60% of 20yds = 12yds, subtract 12yds from 100yds and set your club distance for 88yds. An easy way to figure this out is: Multiply elevation yardage times 3, divide that total by 5. This will give you the yardage to subtract. 20yds x 3 = 60 / 5 = 12 and 100yds - 12yds = 88yds
With a little practice, this will work. As far as being a straight drop.. I think maybe you are playing a fantasy course and you will need to play it a few time to come up with the right yardage. I have played a few fantasy designs where the elevation drop is 100 yds or greater.. this formula has worked for me.. good luck.. ed |
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edintampa4 Signature |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 at
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| There are plenty of holes that have more than 60 ft elevation changes. I make some of my par 3's pretty crazy sometimes for the simple fact that if I don't it makes the hole too easy. I've never had a problem with the game not recognizing the elevation change of a hole. |
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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2012 at
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I use the old tried and true formula: Add half up and subtract a third down. Its worked pretty well for me for 22 years. I'll give you an example. Say I have an approach to the green from 150 yards and it its 24 feet uphill. I will add 12 yards to the distance. If it was 24 feet downhill I would subtract 8 yards. I was playing The Olympic Club the other day. I had a shot that was 40 some feet uphill so I added about 20 yards. I went flying over the green like the uphill wasnt even there. It seems the more up or down the approach is, the more it gets screwed up. If you start going into yards up or down instead of feet, it can be stupid. Courses don't need to be designed like that anyway. My message to designers is even if your making a fantasy course, try to make it as close to real as possible. The scenery, tree lines, water, sand and all that can be "fantasy like" but make the course, tee to green realistic. We don't need greens that have unreal slopes either like an uphill putt 40 some inches and if you miss and go by the hole your shot comming back is 30 inches or more uphill also. That takes all the fun out of the game. I like tough courses and a challange but not that way.
Off topic. How or why did Gunpower61 edit edintampa4's post? |
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BGravoliciou |
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| Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 at
9:03:36 AM |
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| "Say I have an approach to the green from 150 yards and it its 24 feet uphill. I will add 12 yards to the distance. If it was 24 feet downhill I would subtract 8 yards. I was playing The Olympic Club the other day. I had a shot that was 40 some feet uphill so I added about 20 yards. I went flying over the green like the uphill wasnt even there." |
Mabey those are typo's there but if you are 24 feet uphill, you only need to add 4 yards distance....24 / 3 = 8 yards cut in half to 4 yards
and if you are 40 feet uphill you only need to add 6yards distance. 40 / 3 = 13 cut in half to 6 yards.
anyways, mabey that's messing you up but it sounds like your keen on flat courses which is cool, I am completely opposite which is one of the reasons i started making my own courses.
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Gunpower61 |
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| Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 at
12:53:03 PM |
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| "Off topic. How or why did Gunpower61 edit edintampa4's post?" |
Hi Links, i edited Ed his post because there were some strange characters in his post ( Some keyboard characters are not recognized by the Forum ).
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 at
8:01:57 PM |
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Not all courses are flat. And the Olympic Club is one of the most extreme courses in the United States. See below:
http://www.golfchannel.com/media/2012-usopen-tee-to-green-olympic-club-hole-2/
Frank Nobilo discusses each hole (including elevation)
http://golfweek.com/news/2012/jun/10/olympic-clubs-fairways-tough-test/
"There’s considerable tilt to the golf course, with many of the holes terraced in along the long side of contour lines that cover 190 feet of elevation change from the high point (No. 1 tee) to the low point by the 13th tee."
I measured and attached a picture of the architect file. My version has a 30 yard change (90 feet) which is actually 100 feet LESS of elevation change between 1 tee and 13 tee. A picture of the architect file is attached.
http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landing?US-Open-Preview-A-Different-Look-At-The-=1&blockID=722432&feedID=11088
"4. The Lake course is three blocks from the Pacific Ocean and has some dramatic elevation changes, that go from a peak of 220 feet above sea level down to 30 feet."
http://news.yahoo.com/top-10-things-know-olympic-club-175600365--golf.html
"Opening Holes: The first six holes at the Lake Course may be the most difficult start in major championship history. Beginning with a 520-yard par-4 (yes, 520 yards), the opening stretch includes five par-4 holes and one par-3. The par-3 is 247 yards, and three of the par-4s are 490 yards or further. All this with elevation changes of 30 feet or more in some cases, plus the aforementioned trees, bunkers, and small greens."
http://www.usopen.com/en_US/news/articles/2012-06-07/201206071339076236719.html
“The character of the topography can now be seen,” says Finlen, who describes the elevation changes from Holes 2 and 3 to the lower end of the property as the most dramatic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/sports/golf/furyk-falters-with-us-open-win-in-sight.html
"He coolly controlled his tee shot with an iron just to the right of the fairway, then launched his second shot at the green. As the ball tried to climb the 30 feet of elevation from fairway to green, the expression on Furyk’s face, which had seemed so serene and self-possessed 90 minutes earlier, now looked worried. "
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/playing-olympic-clubs-first-six-holes-fans-report-025700955--golf.html
"#3: 248 yds par 3, about 60 feet elevation drop, pin behind right bunker."
-Mine is about 63 feet
"Drive: 270, left side of green. Setting up 160 to the pin, green 25 ft above, hole behind right bunker."
-Mine is about 40, so a slight misjudgment, not much though.
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 at
8:09:15 PM |
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| Kapalua's 18th hole drops 170 feet from tee to green. |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 at
8:10:26 PM |
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Castle Pines has 600 feet of elevation changes:
The Country Club at Castle Pines is one of the premier country clubs and golf courses just minutes from Denver – located in the exclusive Castle Pines community of Castle Rock, Colorado. Stunning views and a spectacular Nicklaus Signature golf course are situated among refreshing pines and 600 feet of elevation changes, which offers a superb golf experience. In a state full of gorgeous mountain vistas the panoramic views from the Clubhouse may be the most amazing in Colorado.
http://www.ccatcastlepines.com/Club/Scripts/Home/home.asp |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Monday, October 15, 2012 at
8:13:53 PM |
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This whole article describes the huge elevation changes at Augusta National; up to 90 feet (30 yds) on certain holes.
http://www.masters.com/en_US/news/articles/2011-04-09/201104091302362892015.html |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at
12:13:18 PM |
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| edited by: axe360 on
Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at
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| Having made a couple of REAL courses I can say the elevation is what the elevation is.. So if a REAL course can sometimes have extreme elevations, then why cant a Fantasy course have them too? |
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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at
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Thank you all for the information on the courses and designs. Your're missing my point though. It seems that most times when playing a course with extreme elevation changes, the adjustment you need to make for the shot does not calculate correctly. No matter how you figure your calculations, whatever works for you, it doesn't work on "most" holes with huge elevation changes. I just mentioned one course because I had just played it recently. There are many courses that fit the topic.
What I am saying is that I have played a hole with an extreme elevation and calculated it correctly and the shot had the expected result but there were other holes on the same course with the same or close to the same elevation that did not come close.
Have you ever zoomed in on the hole when your're in the fairway? The game kind of shows you the distance your ball will end when you hit a perfect snap not taking into consideration the wind, green speed, etc. Now I have been on holes that say the distance was 150 yards, 40 feet of elevation and the game gives me a 9 iron. I zoom in and it looks like the correct distance, not taking any consideration for the uphill. Hit the ball and it ends up close to the hole. Shouldn't I have to add distance for the uphill? Ahhhhhhhhhhh but wait. A few holes later and I have almost the exact shot. This time the game gives me an 8 iron. It has automatically figured that I'm going to need more club because of the uphill, which is correct. But wait, we're not finished. I calculate the uphill and hit the 8 iron. Sometimes it's perfect but sometimes it goes right over the green like the uphill isn't even there. I'm supposed to guess what it's going to do? Do I hit the 8 and figure in the uphill or do I hit a 9? It only happens on extreme elevations (the forgotten topic of this post). That's why I don't think course designers should incorporate such elevations into the game.
ps. Hey axe...I left you a private message on another site. :) |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at
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| Links, I have in fact noticed some of the same things you are talking about. I have no clue where you left me a pm, I checked the other 2 sites I belong to and nothing.. CGX and TWO.. |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 at
8:20:55 PM |
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Wish I had an answer. I am not really good enough to figure exact distance like that. Sometimes I guess you just have to rely on feel.
As to fantasy courses I want them to be challenging so I will extend the elevation changes at times. I still consider them realistic and not really unfair.
What you may need to consider is the type of slope, whether gradual, or if the hill is close to the landing area or the spot of the ball. Just a guess... |
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