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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Friday, December 11, 2009 at
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| edited by: R0Bkh on
Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
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Why is it that every PGAX course I play the uphill and downhill yardages from the fairway to the green never calculate into the equation? Don't get me wrong, the course renditions are excellent and for the most part they are very well designed. My gripe is with the slopes. I just finished a round at Bethpage Black and noticed on at least half a dozen holes where I had uphill shots to the green anywhere from thirty to fifty feet that I do not have to add anything to compensate for it. The same with the downhill approaches. I've been playing on line golf for over ten years and I normally adjust my shots somewhere in the range of adding half the distance of the slope on an uphill approach and subtracting one third the distance for downhill approaches. (ex. 150 yards to the green, uphill approach 20 feet, I add 10 yards to the shot for a total of 160 yards) If I do that on a PGAX course I will certainly be flying way over the green and visa versa with downhill approaches. This wasn't the only course. It seems every PGAX course I find this happening. They also have a problem with tree placements. I asked the design team about trees being in the way off tee shots and was told that they make these courses to be played only from the farthest tees. So that makes it OK to put trees in the way of your shot off the tee because you played the round from a different tee? Why wouldn't you look at the design from all the tees so that this isn't a problem for anyone playing the course? I know I am not the only person this is happening to as I play my rounds each day with two or three other people and they say the same thing. I'm sorry if I offended anyone with this post but this is just an annoyance to me when I play these courses. Good luck in the future.
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Boze |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
12:57:47 AM |
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JMO, just get to the point.. No need to read a novel in the forums.
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JSJarvis |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
5:22:38 AM |
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| edited by: JSJarvis on
Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
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| PGAX courses were designed for the PGAX Tour to be played only from the Pro tees and on Very Dry greens. Their courses were not designed for other conditions. They were designed specifically for the needs and desires of their tour. Once they were done they made their courses available to the public but indicated these guidelines for play. They do not design for all tee placements because their tour only plays from the Pro tees to mimic the actual PGA Tour and the most realistic pro golf conditions. In part, posts like this are why they have stopped releasing their courses to the community as a whole. |
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phnert44 |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
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Most of the comments regarding the PGAX courses in the past have been glowing, supportive and for the most part positive in their praise. The last example being Harding Park released in October, 2009. The courses offered for the community are ALWAYS APPRECIATED.
One of the main reasons giving in the past was that the PGAX folks wanted to finish their tourny with the new design before it is released to the public. But in some cases the courses were released by tour members to their friends before the tour was ended. (I don't know the exact details but a simple description of what I understood) It wasn't because of the above like comments although I'm sure they are not appreciated. (critical comments or questions are rare for PGAX courses)
The main offense seems to be PGAX tour members who sent copies to their friends, not the public who did not commit the wrong. But the general public now cannot enjoy the courses except for in some cases the copies that are still quietly sent.
It would seem to me a sporadic release like Harding Park and East Lake to the public with a raised expectation and the overwhelming appreciation for the courses and their design excellence might prove prudent in the future. That might minimize the "black market" use of the PGAX courses. It is the season, gifts are nice, I hope a few more are released in the future. |
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JSJarvis |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
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I guess you missed all of the past threads and comments made on the courses where people complained about not being able to play from other tees, where people complained about the greens because they were designed just for play on Very Dry, or where people complained and in some cases almost demanded that courses be released early. While what you see on most of the courses now are good comments, there have been times where the appreciation for their hard work has been very lacking in the comments.
The decision was made initially by PGAX to stop releasing their courses altogether. It has only been recently that it was left up to the primary architect of the course whether they wanted their design to be uploaded to CS. I am on staff at PGAX as well and upload courses from there to here when it is requested. |
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phnert44 |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
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| I didn't miss them, I was referring to the most recent comments. Those old tired comments you referred to are dismissed by the general public for what they are. I'm glad some of the designers will still upload their designs. |
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fedexfrt357 |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
11:27:20 AM |
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| edited by: fedexfrt357 on
Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
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Well, if the courses are played the way they were DESIGNED to be played, they are fine...
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...If it aint broke....fix it til it is...
Working: Castle Hills Golf Club (Real....istic) |
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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
4:38:54 PM |
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| edited by: LinksPro on
Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
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| Wow. Im sorry if I struck a nerve. A little constructive criticism and the PGAX team wont release their courses. Boo hoo, Im gonna cry. How childish of them. Why cant we just stick to the original point of the post. Distances for uphill and downhill approach shot do not figure into the equation when playing their courses. Ive been playing since Links98, moved to Links2000, Tiger Woods 07 and Tiger Woods 08. I always added half for the uphill and subtract one third for the downhill (;give or take)and that usually gets me close. Why do their courses not conform with every other course? |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
4:46:07 PM |
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| edited by: axe360 on
Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
4:52:00 PM
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As far as your question regarding the uphill/downhill yardage adjustments, that may be a better question for the designers?
Speaking for myself, I dont think I have ever had anyone say that about one of my courses, thankfully. If they had, I would not of known how to respond to that question, as far as I know its not something a designer could manipulate.. Im speaking strictly to the question of the uphill/downhill yardage question.
I could be wrong though, but theirs no way I know of..
As for the comment about PGAX not taking constrctive criticism well, I know for a fact, that is not the case.
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cms659 |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
4:48:11 PM |
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| "Wow. I'm sorry if I struck a nerve. A little constructive criticism and the PGAX team wont release their courses. Boo hoo, I'm gonna cry. How childish of them. Why cant we just stick to the original point of the post. Distances for uphill and downhill approach shot do not figure into the equation when playing their courses. Ive been playing since Links98, moved to Links2000, Tiger Woods 07 and Tiger Woods 08. I always added half for the uphill and subtract one third for the downhill (give or take)and that usually gets me close. Why do their courses not confirm with every other course?" |
Hmmm - LOL - your 1/3 off for the downhill is what I use too on most courses (seems to work). Interestingly enough - I add yard-for-yard (instead of the 1/2 like you do) on the uphill and that gets me close. I've never understood, regardless of the course, how no matter the -formula- that you use, the used one works. Explain that one. |
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Chuck
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Otto Kriete |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
7:01:18 PM |
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| what level are you playing? |
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Otto Kriete |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
7:05:18 PM |
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| "Why do their courses not confirm with every other course?" |
My guess is that it's because they rarely use "stock" textures for their courses......... they make their own textures. Hence, the difference in the way the courses play.
I play their courses the way they are designed to play, and generally subtract about 60% of the given downhill elevation to get close .......... but that has little bearing with pgax v dry textures. Most of the time, if you're shooting at the pin on one of those courses with v dry greens and some wind........ you're gonna find yourself in a world of trouble.......... |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
8:31:16 PM |
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| Bottom line is if you don't like it don't play it... |
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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Saturday, December 12, 2009 at
8:37:52 PM |
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Thanks axe. I was hoping one of the designers would have an answer and reply. Maybe Otto has the answer with his remark about the textures. It only makes sense that if your shooting to a pin that is 50 feet in elevation above where your standing that you need to add yardage to reach it no matter what the green hardness is. You still have to add yards. I don't get that playing PGAX courses.
btw...I play Intermediate mainly but do play a lot of Advanced also.
btw 2...Not to pat myself on the back but I'm not a bad golfer. Check my stats. |
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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
9:27:27 PM |
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| edited by: LinksPro on
Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
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| Another intelligent response from FedEx. If I knew how to design courses I would make sure they played correctly when I did design them. You have a problem Fed? Yes, fix it. Zee agreed in the beginning of his post that the yardages do not play correctly due to the textures they create. Im not trying to be insulting to anyone here. I see a problem with a course design and wondered if it could be corrected. If not, so be it. |
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Bobby Bolin |
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| Posted: Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
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Listen, I didn't mean any offense by what I said and all I meant was exactly what I said: If you don't like a course, don't play it... I don't think that was a personal statement and I'm not trying to take sides.
Professional golfers take tournaments off, sometimes because they do not like the course being played for whatever reasons.
I will admit that there are courses from PGAX that I don't enjoy playing as well, but I don't think you should be going after PGAX like you are.
Heck, I don't even like some of my own courses. It just doesn't make sense to go after an entire community the way you are. These guys spend countless hours each week doing their best to mimic the PGA Tour. That's their mission and I think they're doing a pretty good job of accomplishing it.
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fedexfrt357 |
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| Posted: Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
9:50:01 PM |
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| edited by: fedexfrt357 on
Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
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I probably do... But back to this subject...
If you werent so matter of fact and critical of courses that you are lucky to be playing in the first place.....
Like I said before...make and play your own, then you dont have to worry about being happy with it...
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fedexfrt357 Signature |
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...If it aint broke....fix it til it is...
Working: Castle Hills Golf Club (Real....istic) |
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LinksPro |
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| Posted: Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
11:13:40 PM |
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| If you look at my original post I said their course renditions are excellent and are well designed. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that isn't my intention. I would just like a course to play correctly. When I find the same mistake on courses made by the same people I commented on it. If I designed courses and received a post (or multiple posts) that something wasn't playing correctly on it, I would check and double check as to why, and how can I fix it. That's all I ask. If I come off rude and crude I apologize. Its difficult to express feelings in type. |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Sunday, December 13, 2009 at
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I do see what you saying now, for some reason I thought you were talking about the elevations just off of the tee's.
I am going to check this out on a course I am working on now.
I guess I'm a little slow.. So if your talking about hitting from the grasses, I can see where the distances could possibly be different. This is very interesting indeed.
I normally adjust about half the distance of the elevation, but I wonder how that could be true for every stock course, but then not true for all those customs? Puzzling indeed. I'll let you know if I find anything out on my course. :) |
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axe360 |
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| Posted: Monday, December 14, 2009 at
12:20:57 AM |
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| I'm using PGAX's Sawgrass 09 textures and I have to adjust my shot about half for the elevations, I only tested a couple of holes, but when this course goes out for testing, I will make sure to ask the testers to check into this further, just to see.. Peace |
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