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paulw |
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| Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 at
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We now have two Augusta National Courses which if there was some collaboration between the architects would have made *one* absolute gem. Im not going to say which one I prefer because I am just happy when anyone shares their work. Thanks to both architects.
Ive done a lot of modding in EAs MVP Baseball and have had so much fun in collaborating with other modders. I wish this was the case here also. I never could have done Classic Yankee without Sean or Ebbets without Stuart helping me on each. It was an absolute blast to work with each of these very talented folks.
Just think what kind of Augusta we could have with Ken and Hyno working together. |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 at
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Ken has been doing his course for 5 or 6 years, the only year he missed, I built the course.
This is my Answer:
Personally I wanted to build Carnoustie to bring that course to the public, because I felt like EA Sports should have released that for the PC. Not just releasing it for the X-box 360. If that course was released for the PC, I more than likely would have not done any courses for 07. Muirfield was only a test course, getting ready for Carnoustie
Oakmont had changed so much, the old course was out of date, so it was decided to re-work that one. Than after the US Open take another look, and fill in some stuff.
My Augusta course was completed last May, and have been running it on a Widescreen HD LCD, with surround sound. Playing it on an off in the Winter. I was doing this course reguardless, but wasnt going to release it. The Hogan Slam entered my mind, this is the first time since 1953, the 1st three majors are being played on Augusta, Oakmont, and Carnoustie. Hogan won all of them....... |
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paulw |
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| Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 at
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Have you and Ken ever corresponded with each other? Just curious - you have a shared passion for course design and Augusta. BTW - if youre ever interested I dug up my 1998 and 1992 Masters Journals which have respectively complete topographical representations of each hole and each green respectively. 18 *is* uphill to the bunkers (unless the new 18th tee is about 40 feet higher or so than the old one) and 11 is anything but flat. These are not criticisms - just suggestions. You guys both did great work and I cant thank you enough. I guess Im just being selfish in wishing for everyone the best Augusta possible. Its obviously my favorite course and Ive been studying it for a long, long time. I have old VCR recordings of some of the great Masters of the past 20 years.
I also noticed youve done Merion (my other favorite). I cant play it because it says one of my zip files is corrupt :-( My brother has visited the course twice and has pictures of almost all the holes. He literally was allowed to stand in the middle of the quarry. Its amazing how Ardmore Ave. and Golf House Road are almost part of the course. What a beauty.
BTW - your 3rd hole at Augusta is absolutely perfect!! Plays and looks like a gem. |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 at
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| edited by: Hyno Designs on
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No, I never spoke with ken, but after playing his 03 course, I was impressed with the advance game play, he was able to put in to a video game. When I saw this, I decided to give it a go, and do merion, from playing it once in my life.
I have been to Augusta 2 times in my life. The place is great, but it is not even close to Pine Valley. The 1st shot I recall was back in 1991, I ran to #7. Mickelson was an amateur playing with Faldo. Phils shot hit the back of the green and spun the entire green. Later on #13, Phil and Faldo both made eagles. In 96, thanks to a few college mates who worked at West Lake, they gave us some tickets. So I cut class coming home from Hilton Head, and ran around Augusta with a video camera. I started my Masters Collection in 1989.
The terrain maps from the 96 Masters Journal was used. It told you what the tee is the fairway low and green heights. This is just a video game, nothing more nothing is perfect per say. You add a yard here, or change something. On any course, if you get the general look, than it is fine. To get hole 10 perfect with a 100 foot drop is not possible. You put a 100-Foot drop in the CA, it is pretty hard to cover that massive hole u just dug.
11 This was a hard one, they shifted the fairway a tad left, made it tight, it used to be 50 yards wide. At 505 or whatever it is....You go down a gully off the tee, than it is up hill, once it gets to a peak, it than falls back down to the green. Because the hole is so long, I wanted the player to be able to see the green if they hit their tee shot far enough. This hole was really hard to put in, it was the last hole done on the course, I had 100 foot drop in the CA, and had to somehow fit in 11. Honestly, I have not even looked at detail elevations on that hole since oct of 2005. When it was shifted to fix the problems I saw on the 05 course. It was a problem to create, and when I felt the general look of the holes was ok, I was than happy with the results. It is like putting together a puzzle with the wrong pieces.
18. The tee is up, than it goes down to a gully (There is a nice drop) than back up to the bunkers. While the fairway bends to the right. There is actually a little water hazard on 18. Also on 2......(I left them out of the course they didnt fit right)
Please understand this, The elevations on Augusta are massive. When you look at the stock courses for this game, I dont recall ever seeing anything as hilly as Augusta. The courses I design are created on a wide screen I have no idea what they look like on a standard monitor. One other thing about this course, it was designed by eye pretty much this was before I understood how to do courses. I just dug it out of the ground, it is hard to explain. I would create these really basic shapes, and than do these massive elevations, play the hole in the game. And than plant it a little. Look at it and think up what to do. I had a picture of what I wanted, and how I wanted it to play, than just went with it......Trust me, if I was to do the course again from zero, I think it would be better. You learn as you go, it is just now, it takes too long to do courses for me. There is no desire to do them, too much work to be honest.
The greens are pretty good they’re hard, but playable and have the general slopes. A few extra slopes I added.. On this course I wanted to change 16, because I wanted a far right Pin, near the back bunker. So some of the slope on 16 was taken out, to get this pin location, like were Nicklaus made it in 75. Maybe to the public since this course was just released may seem new, but it really is not, like I said before it was fully revised last may.......The planting was just updated, and a few things altered to fit in to 07. The way I look at theses courses now, they are not real courses per say, but golfing simulations based on the real course. I think Ken did a pretty good job on his course. |
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paulw |
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| Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007 at
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Thanks very much for the response. Your experiences are extremely impressive. Wow. I understand how much work it has to be to put these courses together. Ive spent hundreds of hours on my number one passion - modding classic ballparks (youll see me on mvpmods.com a lot). As Ive said before, thanks so much for this. I guess in all honesty each version of Augusta is great. Id love to be able to merge my favorite holes from each version into one great course - something 100% impossible to ever do.
I cant wait to try Merion!! What a unique course it is. The green contours from some of my brothers pictures are intense to say the least. Theyve cut down a few too many trees IMHO but theres a tendency to try and make some of the old courses more consistent with their original design - just look what they did to Oakmont.
It was great talking to you via the web. Its sure going to be an interesting golf season. Take care... |
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TruBluMich |
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| Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007 at
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| "Ken has been doing his course for 5 or 6 years, the only year he missed, I built the course........" |
from what I know Kens course dates back to PGA 2000 by Sierra Sports and Headgate Studios. |
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TigerShark! |
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| Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007 at
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Youre correct Tru. Good call! Ken has been and always will be considered the sole master of Augusta ever since the very early days of PGA2000 and maybe even PGA99. This has always been his signature course and one of the few courses every single player waits and hopes for each and every year. As the numbers bear out, his version of Augusta each and every year is by far the #1 downloaded course throughout the years. When someone says the name Augusta in regards to cybergolf, the one and only name people think of is Ken McHale and will always be us old-timers favorite all-time course and designer.
(And no Im not related to Ken). :) |
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paulw |
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| Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007 at
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| To get the most out of Kens cool course, set the conditions at NORAML. It still plays very slick because of the big contours. Ive tried it at dry but had some rather strange things happen, especially on 13. I also set the weather conditions at cloudy (it brings out the lush green look) and afternoon (the sun starts setting right as you hit 18). Also, if you drive it down the left side of the 11th fairway you get a great view of Amen Corner on your second shot. Another thing to do is move your golfer postion left and very slightly back on the 13th tee - youll then see that great looking stone wall. One other very realistic thing to do is if youve got the wind behind you on No. 2 and you can just clear the left inside corner of the fairway bunker on your tee shot the ball will take off down the hill. Ive had a 376 yard drive this way once. One time Tiger did the same (on the real Augusta), got all of it and was playing a *wedge* for his second shot in on this par 5. Kens course really does give me the feel Im playing the real thing. His 14th and 9th greens are contoured beautifully. The mounding is perfect on No. 8 and No. 7 looks real, real nice. Finally, his 18th plays nicely up the hill... |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Thursday, March 22, 2007 at
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| edited by: Hyno Designs on
Friday, March 23, 2007 at
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I have to delete out my comments. I forget this a public forum and not a private chat.
Basically what it said was We cant build perfect clones of golf courses |
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paulw |
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| Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 at
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| Hyno - I didnt mean to p*** you off. My post was not a criticism of your course. If I didnt like it I wouldnt make any comments on it. I was really just trying to help and I also wanted to say some nice things for Ken. Im going to shut up now and go back to mvpmods. I guess I fixated on 18 because to me it kind of detracted from the rest of the course. It just didnt feel right or look right to me. The irony of all this is that I could be wrong and then Im a complete idiot. |
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| Posted: Friday, March 23, 2007 at
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| edited by: TruBluMich on
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Paulw, I am not pi**ed off in the least......I have to change this post, cause I cant write what I did...It is not about you, but about the Past of Hyno Designs....It was a long war....Which I lost.......
If you want me to change 18 for you, I can do that, and send u the course file via email. It is easy to drop the tee a few more feet. Tell me what u want done. My email is listed on my account. |
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coletx24 |
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| Posted: Friday, April 6, 2007 at
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| Im posting this in this thread because you designed the course. Some buddies and me have been playing the game for about 2 months now and finally decided to download some new courses. This being Masters week, we naturally chose Augusta. I played the course offline yesterday afternoon. No problems. When my friends got the course last night we started a couple of online matches. At one time or another, all of us got booted completely back to desktop. Game just quit on us. Weve never had this problem with any of the stock courses, and we all have pretty decent systems. We do run Teamspeak while we are playing. Do you know of any glitches that might cause this? |
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TruBluMich |
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| Posted: Friday, April 6, 2007 at
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| "Do you know of any glitches that might cause this?" |
Ya, Tiger Woods 2007 is one big glitch |
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| Posted: Friday, April 6, 2007 at
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I would guess you are talking about the Hyno design course. If you look at the two courses they are planted 100% different. Because my course has over 6000 trees and bushes, when you play with your buddies online, and you have the course set on AUTO CAM. It picks up all the extra data, and when your system cant handle it, the course sends you back to desktop. When you play in this type of match up, just make sure that all of you have the course set to BALL CAM. Their should not be any issues their after. If there is, TURN tree animations off, and lower some of the tree settings.
It has nothing to do with this never happening before, cause it will happen on any course that goes to the boarder of what the 07 game can handle. If you are playing any of my courses, just be aware of this, and make the adjustments to play them trouble free.
In 2005, The PC game, could take on a lot more, in 06 and 07 it cant. I am not going to change or limit the courses I do because the PC game has gone backwards. Their is not even a COURSE ARCH program for the TW07 Game. I like the extra plantings, Galleries, Cameras, Leaderboards, Custom CLS, all the little things that are put in. On Augusta, I was not that happy with the 07 trees, I felt like the colors could have been better. EA is the one who makes that. Ken used a lot more of the 06 trees and if you dont make the correct adjustments on his course, you get blocks on the trees. It is just the way the game goes. If you want to play course wizard layouts that have nothing on them, you will never have an issue. If you want the BMW that is fully loaded, you may need to make adjustments in your settings.... |
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Hyno Designs |
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| Posted: Friday, April 6, 2007 at
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| edited by: Hyno Designs on
Friday, April 6, 2007 at
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How many azalea do you think are on the real 13.....I heard over 1600
This is going to be a hard masters with the weather so cold and the course so firm.
If one can, make sure to watch it in HD, and Surround sound, it is miles better than the standard TV pictures with TV speakers......
You can log on to Masters.org to watch Amen corner today, and the CBS Broadcasts starts at 3:00 on Masters.org. The USA coverage is at 4:00
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brucemcisaac |
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| Posted: Saturday, April 7, 2007 at
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another point on why 2 versions ...why not?
One thing I have learned is everyone has diffrent tastes and likes... the more variety the better.
One thing that no one can argue is the work needed to produce a design ...many times I have been totally impressed with a new design by someones 1st attempt.
Both these designers have diffent aproaches to thieir courses ...but most dont do a design because there is a version already ... to me personally, I have no issue with seeing diffrent variations.
Ill pick the one I like best and play it... ... rarely do I choose a design based only on the designer - I just go with the one I like... more means more variety..that werks for me... |
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big9324 |
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| Posted: Sunday, April 8, 2007 at
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Blocked trees are from the game settings. Its called Atmospheric Lighting. It happens no matter what trees you use. If you turn the setting off you dont have the blocked looking trees. Ill let you do the homework as to why this happens, but you need to know before you just guess and try to explain why it happens.
You also had several stock 06 libs and 1 04 stock lib. That may be cause for an issue as well. Im not trying to harp on you anymore here. Im now trying to pitch in some help. Try and make some changes already mentioned. You may just be suprised. Ill even use Carnoustie as an example. After we traded emails on some of the things that cause issues, you released that course. It was set up perfect and used current libs, ect. I played that course all the way thru with no probs and though it was a killer set!! Theres a big reason for that.......
I think its great that you make the courses you want to make. It takes alot to release the same course as someone like Kens. Its just the way you try and explain things that rubs me wrong. Hopefully you get yourself worked out so people can have 2 great Augusta to play!! |
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